Talk:Boyd Rice

NPOV tag

I'm not an expert on Rice, but I think the current article softpedals his semi-ironic fascism. The NPOV tag is useful as a warning to readers in case I never get around to improving the article. Prezbo (talk) 12:38, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Spencer Sunshine

I don't think this person is a neutral source. His Twitter account has a post whitewashing communism and in addition to following anti-Israel accounts, his profile picture contains anti-Semitic imagery. MistahKrinkle (talk) 05:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Without getting into an argument about his Twitter account, let's take it as read that Sunshine is on the far left politically and isn't sympathetic to Rice. However the book's published by an academic press, which makes it the best source currently available according to Wikipedia's usual standards. Honestly I don't know that much about the ins and outs of Wikipedia's reliability/neutrality practices, you can post at WP:RSN if you want someone else's opinion. If there are specific sentences cited to Sunshine that you think are wrong, point them out and I can see if there's another source that says the same thing. But I'm opposed to removing the content sourced to Sunshine's book wholesale, it's exactly the kind of source Wikipedia normally values. Prezbo (talk) 11:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Prezbo I agree it's a good source, not sure about the far left. Doug Weller talk 13:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm double checked his twitter and can find very little about communism, unless you mean this but that doesn't seem to match your description. He was interview last month by JWeekly which would seem odd for an antisemite, and there's this opinion piece from 2017 where he criticises antisemites in left wing groups. Alhough there are individuals who use anti-zionism as a way of hiding there antisemitism I think you've missed the mark in this case.

Ultimately as this is an author who has been published by a high quality academic publisher on the subject matter at hand, it appears to be the exact type of source that Wikipedia should rely upon. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 14:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I also feel it is necessary to point out that holding far-left opinions would not make sources written by an author unreliable.Boynamedsue (talk) 05:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Lmao, but only on Wokipedia. Imagine if it were the other way round: "holding far-right opinions would not make sources written by an author unreliable". We both know that wouldn't fly. 77.22.168.237 (talk) 09:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Holding far right opinions does not make sources written by an author unreliable either. Far right authors are much more likely to lean towards WP:FRINGE beliefs, due to their tendency towards denialism of various kinds and the essentially unscientific nature of racism, but there is nothing to stop far right authors who avoid this from being cited on here.--Boynamedsue (talk) 16:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

It's published by an academic publisher, received many reviews all of which are positive. Sure the guy's a leftist but being politicized does not make you unreliable if you have a reputation for fact checking and accuracy (as evidenced by the reviews and publisher). I read it and was generally impressed. Rice's more dubious antics aren't only citable to that anyway - it's just a convenient, recent, comprehensive source. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:08, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

"Provable libel"

This is not an obscure fact about the man, and is well sourced. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:56, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Fascist

@Lewishhh Unless we say, in wikivoice, Boyd Rice is a fascist, we cannot put it in the categories. The sourcing is not there to support that. Extrapolating only some of his statements is OR and a WP:BLP violation. PARAKANYAA (talk) 11:51, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

The section of the letter where he compares his beliefs to Hitler's is included in the article. What ideology is Hitler known for? His meaning is unambiguous so it is not OR. Lewishhh (talk) 11:53, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

It is ambiguous because Rice did stupid stunts and lied very often for decades. I think he is, but we do not say he is. He also denied being a Neo-Nazi - why are we privileging one statement from him over the other? We are not qualified to analyze the primary sources to see which one is more "true". Classical OR. PARAKANYAA (talk) 11:59, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

Wouldn't the fact that he's a Zionist prove that he isn't a Neo-Nazi? LupinOnTheFritz (talk) 22:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

This is a BLP. We have to be extremely careful, you cannot insert stuff that is not there. The edit you just made inserted extremely negative material on a BLP into the text that was not in the original source. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:01, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

A birth date is not "extremely negative information", or unduly self serving, and there is no reason to suggest he would lie about it. It fits all the criteria for when WP:ABOUTSELF is appropriate. There are very obvious and clear reasons that someone would lie about not being a neo-Nazi, while every source that says Rice's age lines up with what he provided. These are not at all the same thing. The policy is this: 'Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public.' That is satisfied. Now, if Rice wants us to remove it, then we very well can, but he has not asked and seems to be free and open with it. We have no reason to doubt the factual accuracy because no RS does (unlike the fascism) and all ages that RS give line up. And it is not OR to take a very basic fact such as birthday because anyone can verify it. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:46, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Spencer Sunshine, PhD

In 2024, respected academic Spencer Sunshine, PhD, in his book Neo-Nazi Terrorism and Countercultural Fascism, published by Routledge, settled the question of Boyd Rice’s long suspected neo-Nazism. In his highly regarded research, Dr. Sunshine explicitly clarifies in no uncertain terms that Mr. Rice is indeed a neo-Nazi activist. Therefore, whitewashing is no longer an option in this article. ~2025-40882-15 (talk) 09:38, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

Your edit was uncited on a WP:BLP. The book does not say what you are adding. And how are we to determine if he has "settled the question"? PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

Would "White Nationalism/Far-Right Politics in the United States" be an appropriate category?

While, by the standards of Wikipedia, there isn't enough to definitively pin Rice as being a Neo-Nazi/Fascist/White Supremacist, etc., his involvement with far-right groups and figures was a substantial factor in his work for an extended period of time, and his presence had a less substantial but still notable effect on wider American far-right politics (most prominently his involvement in the publication of Siege). Would placing his page in the category of "White Nationalism in the United States" or "Far-Right Politics in the United States" be appropriate? This would acknowledge his involvement with these politics without outright stating that he is an adherent to any political ideology. JellyfishReflector (talk) 13:28, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

If there's not enough for him to definitively pin him as one (and honestly there probably is) he shouldn't be in those categories, no. PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:43, 13 August 2026 (UTC)