Talk:Bell shrine

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 17:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

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Shrine of St. Patrick's Bell, 11th century, National Museum of Ireland

• ... that a number of Irish early medieval bell shrines were buried in bogs or rivers to avoid Viking raiders? Source: * Bourke, Cormac. "Bell-Shrines". In: Moss, Rachel, Medieval c. 400—c. 1600: Art and Architecture of Ireland. London: Yale University Press, 2014. ISBN 978-0-3001-7919-4
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Spiral case
  • Comment:

Created by Ceoil (talk). Self-nominated at 00:20, 29 October 2022 (UTC).

• This is good to go just pending the QPQ being finished. I like the hook, really interesting especially from a historical perspective. Article's new and long enough. Hook is cited and in line with requirements. Just need to do the QPQ and it'll be good. Good job! Soulbust (talk) 02:40, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I need a day to sort this out. Bear with me, thanks. Ceoil (talk) 02:45, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

• @Ceoil: It's been seven days since your last comment. Have you been able to accomplish your QPQ? Per DYK rules, a nomination may be marked for closure if a QPQ is not provided within seven days of a reminder. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:56, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

am travelling, will be back tomorrow nightCeoil (talk) 15:17, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• Done now Narutolovehinata5 Ceoil (talk) 23:17, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  • Ping Narutolovehinata5 Ceoil (talk) 21:59, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

    • My only intention here was to ping regarding the QPQ requirement, the actual review is still in Soulbust's hands. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Alright yep this should be good to go then. Soulbust (talk) 00:15, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

• @Ceoil: the article only says "presumably they were hidden", but the hook states this as established fact. Also, the sentence in the article that states the hook fact needs a citation right there, not at the end of the paragraph per WP:DYKCRIT#Cited hook. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:53, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that it is thought that a number of early medieval Irish bell shrines were deposited in bogs or rivers to avoid Viking raiders? Source: * Bourke, Cormac. "Bell-Shrines". In: Moss, Rachel, Medieval c. 400—c. 1600: Art and Architecture of Ireland. London: Yale University Press, 2014. ISBN 978-0-3001-7919-4

"burying" in a river sounds ... wet work. Or "hidden"? Johnbod (talk) 04:00, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Johnbod, Ceoil, I'd go with "hidden" over "deposited"; "avoid" is also an odd locution; why not "save them from"? Finally, the Viking sentence in the article is not sourced to the Bourke 2014 in the article, and needs to be (including page number) if this hook, or a variant thereof, is to be used, as RoySmith notes above. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:53, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, "avoid" is a bit mild - "evade" or "escape" perhaps, or what you said. I'll let Ceoil deal with the ref issue. Johnbod (talk) 03:41, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks all. The river bed thing is too hard to explain in a hook, but for such artifacts found at the bottom of rivers, the earlier examples were dislodged from Crannógs (eg the Ballinderry Brooch), the later from simple hiding on a river bank (eg the River Laune Crozier). Ceoil (talk) 04:02, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• ALT2 ... that it is thought that a number of early medieval Irish bell shrines were hidden in bogs or church walls to save them from Viking raiders? Source: * Bourke, Cormac (2014). "Bell-Shrines". In Moss, Rachel (ed.). Medieval c. 400—c. 1600: Art and Architecture of Ireland. London: Yale University Press. ISBN 978-0-3001-7919-4. p. 305.

RoySmith, does ALT2 address your concerns? BlueMoonset (talk) 05:23, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

sounds good to me. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:59, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Many thanks. Ceoil (talk) 11:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I have to AGF on the source for ALT2 as it is offline. I actually prefer other images which are in the article, but will use the approved in the prep.

"presumably after they were hidden during the Viking and later Anglo-Norman invasions of Ireland"

@Ceoil: I'm just curious about the use of "presumably" here - what does the source say exactly? If it's Bourke who presumes, it would be preferable to state that. I'm always a bit wary about DYK hooks that say "is is thought that", without definite attribution in the text, because they run close to WP:WEASEL. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Amakuru, it can be read as “likely” or “probably”. Ceoil (talk) 19:38, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Ok then. I'll use probably. BorgQueen (talk) 17:46, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

great thanks. Ceoil (talk) 18:04, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Number of bells?

It wasn't clear to me from the article: is a bell shrine designed to cover a single bell, or to contain multiple bells? -- Avocado (talk) 15:23, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

• Single bells, now clarified in the lead. Thanks for spotting. Ceoil (talk) 16:41, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

  Wow, thank you for answering and fixing that so quickly! -- Avocado (talk) 18:51, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

  Appreciate the spot. Pointing out errors or where clarity is needed is very helpful, Tks. Ceoil (talk) 11:11, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

Bell shrine of Kilmichael or The Kilmichael Glassary Bell Shrine?

@Ceoil: I noticed at points in the article the Kilmichael Bell Shrine has two different names. The National Museum of Scotland calls it The Kilmichael Glassary Bell Shrine whereas in the article its called the Bell shrine of Kilmichael. I feel like because the museum that at present holds the shrine calls it the Kilmichael Glassary Bell Shrine that's the name that should be used. What is your opinion?

Additionally, the native name is listed as Tor A'bhlarain' bell shrine on the page, I'm guessing this is because it was found on the farm of Torbhlaren but if you have any additional sourcing for that it would be helpful! Kachow03 (talk) 14:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)