Talk:Battle of Toretsk

Interwiki

Needs to be linked with ru:Бои за Торецк. 82.36.165.47 (talk) 17:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

How do we know the Russian military's objectives here?

Hello to all my respected fellow editors. I am attempting to verify, through reliable sources, this statement which is asserted in the lede:

The battle of Toretsk is an ongoing engagement...for control of the city of Toretsk.

I understand it may seem self-evident, but which sources have said explicitly that the objective of this Russian offensive is to take control over the city of Toretsk?

Indeed, ISW of 27 June characterized the Russian offensive in the Toretsk area as diversionary, assessed that the Russian force strength in the area was very likely insufficient for an operation to seize the town [Toretsk], and in fact speculated that Russian forces may... have no intention of making significant tactical gains in the Toretsk direction and may hope that offensive operations in the area will apply pressure on Ukrainian forces along a wider front in Donetsk Oblast and facilitate gains in the Chasiv Yar and Avdiivka directions.

Hopefully this helps demonstrate that the assertion that this battle/engagement/offensive has the definitive aim of taking control over Toretsk is not by any means a sure thing.

Ping @Flemmish Nietzsche. Thanks all. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 18:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

@SaintPaulOfTarsus I don't think there's any doubt (except from that one ISW statement) that Russian forces are trying to capture Toretsk itself; all media outlets specify, or at least imply, when mentioning the offensive that the main goal is to capture the city.

Some articles mentioning such goal:

In a RFE/RL article (which has questionable reliability but is just repeating what someone said), for example, a Ukrainian colonel says that "Toretsk is likely the primary objective for Russian commanders right now [...] because capturing it would give Russia control over a wider urban area stretching along the western edges of the Donetsk region."

Also, why would Russia increase shelling and attacks on Toretsk itself so much if the intention was not to capture it? Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

@Flemmish Nietzsche: Thank you for sharing these URLs. In particular, Kyiv Post and the RFE/RL quote you mentioned demonstrate conclusively that your view is shared by Ukrainian military commanders. I would still object to this being written in wiki voice in the lede but I think it would be perfectly appropriate with a qualifier something like according to Ukrainian military officials.

Regarding Reuters, Deutsche Welle, and New York Times #2, unless there is something I'm missing, if there is any speculation here regarding the Russian military's objectives, I think it is implied too subtly and vaguely to be authoritative here. Similarly I do not see NYT #1 as necessarily authoritative or holding the same weight as the others if it is only that image caption.

Your last sentence looks to me like begging the question. A plan to capture Toretsk is probably the most logical explanation if we were to apply Occam's razor here, but I encourage you to keep an open mind and not to jump to conclusions when it comes to the potential objectives of ongoing military operations. There is always the possibility of an elaborate feint or a maneuver like the one described in the ISW quote I included above. But at the end of the day, we should follow the RS and reduce our own personal speculation to a minimum. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 01:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Toretsk offensive

I propose to change article's name on Toretsk offensive like Pokrovsk offensive. This would be more correct and more in line with reality. 83.23.165.246 (talk) 15:09, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 29 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close (WP:RUSUKR). Mellk (talk) 18:08, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

---

Battle of Toretsk → Toretsk offensiveToretsk offensive – This article not only covers the Battle of Toretsk, but also the fighting in the satellite settlements and cities of Niu-York, Pivdenne, Pivnichne, Zalizne, etc. similarly to the offensive in Pokrovsk. I suggest renaming the article to Toretsk offensive as User:83.23.165.246 proposed.

~ Valentinianus I (talk) 09:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article renaming request

• What I think should be changed: the article name

  −

  Battle of Toretsk

  +

  Toretsk offensive

• Why it should be changed:

This article not only covers the Battle of Toretsk, but also the fighting in the satellite settlements and cities of Niu-York, Pivdenne, Pivnichne, Zalizne, etc. similarly to the offensive in Pokrovsk. There are also a couple of news sites calling it an offensive.

• References supporting the possible change:

~ Valentinianus I (talk) 06:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit requests are not for requesting page moves, nor can non extended-confirmed users (including yourself) make such move requests under WP:RUSUKR; however, I shouldn't just ignore your points; an article can cover fighting in areas surrounding a city even when titled "battle of x"; that's why the title is not "battle in Toretsk"; I see why you would want the page moved, but this is not really a large-scale offensive covering a wide area outside of the titular goal (in this case Toretsk) unlike Pokrovsk; if Russia takes Pokrovsk, the operation will likely be remembered not just for the city's capture but for the capture of the large area east of it; the situation is not the same for Toretsk, the main reason being that New York, Zalizne, Pivnichne, etc. are mostly all part of the built-up area around Toretsk in its urban agglomeration, and the same hromada at that. A page move is within the realm of possibility, as it is definitely an offensive towards Toretsk, but I would first need to see a better argument as to why a retitling is necessary. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 06:46, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I tend to agree that this event, like many others, is more commonly referred to as an offensive rather than a battle in the sources, and that this should inform the article title. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 14:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

References

Ukrainian counteroffensive into Niu York?

Is it worth mentioning the Ukrainain counteroffensive into Niu York? It's been a recent update (9/06/2024) to the deepstatelive map, I'm aware their information is usually delayed and I haven't seen many other reliable sources cover this topic. It seems more like a clarification of the grey/red zone that was broken on deepstatelive for the past week in that Nevplivka/Niu York front. AKExusiai (talk) 10:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Added. this article is a reliable non-map source. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

> By 6 September, the situation in Niu-York had improved for Ukraine after the Azov Brigade managed to break out of a previous encirclement of their remaining controlled territory in Niu-York.

Did you even read the article? The Azov Brigade wasn't encircled and broke out, it unblocked other troops (probably the 53rd).

~< Valentinianus I (talk) >~ 09:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. I didn't actually read the article, as I expected it to say the same things (that Azov had been encircled and broke out) I had heard elsewhere, which definitely wasn't the best choice. Thanks. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 12:12, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Toretsk already fell

Change the lead and the other parts. GreatLeader1945 ^TALK 16:09, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Says who? Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 16:33, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The news sources? GreatLeader1945 ^TALK 08:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Which ones? Most just say either "the city was entered only as of a couple days ago" (which is demonstrably false) and/or "the eastern outskirts have been captured" (which is likewise not a recent development). Please provide any you have found claiming that the entire city has fallen. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 15:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 November 2024

Hi! I want to change the infobox image to File:Battle of Toretsk.svg (Caption: Current military situation in Toretsk) and move the original image to the beginning of the section "Entrance into Niu-York and further advances (2 July – 21 August)" Hoben7599 (talk) 13:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I want to add that image (File:Battle of Toretsk.svg) becuase it would be helpful for reader to know the the current military situation in there. Hoben7599 (talk) 13:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Great work on the map. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 13:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2024

Please update the date in the caption. The correct date should be "25 December 2024."

−

Military situation around Toretsk as of 13 November

+

Military situation around Toretsk as of 25 December 2024

Hoben7599 (talk) 02:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Done. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 02:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Toretsk Update

Ping @Flemmish Nietzsche - just wanted to find out from you whether you have found any new sources or updates regarding the situation in Toretsk as of 10th January, 2024. I was looking at the Institute of the Study of War and it looks like the Russians are now fighting on the northern and north-western parts of the city. Most of the fighting is happening around the Toretsk Mine in the north of the city too. [Link https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-8-2025] I haven't seen much updates on the Toretsk situation with DeepState recently. Gerald1984 (talk) 16:06, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, fighting is indeed taking place in those parts of Toretsk, and the percent of the city under Ukrainian control looks to be sitting in the single digits as of now; I will update the article when I have time. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 21:04, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Battle is over

Russians have now taken complete control of the city 2A02:587:4D08:9500:C7E2:B769:6702:295F (talk) 17:00, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Source? 82.19.124.65 (talk) 17:01, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/7432195

Rogov said that. But I would wait at least till MOD confirmation. And clearing of the mine. Smeagol 17 (talk) 08:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Support Smeagol regarding MOD statement. The mine is not part of the city. 14.2.207.148 (talk) 12:06, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

While Kommersant is WP:RS it is a claim by an involved party, let's wait for an independent source. There's no rush, WP:NOTNEWS TurboSuperA+ (talk) 06:33, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

All sources ultimately rely on information provided by one of the waring parties involved. In war there is no "independent source". 14.2.207.148 (talk) 04:54, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

There seems to still be fighting over a few buildings/houses on the outskirts: https://global.espreso.tv/russia-ukraine-war-in-toretsk-most-apartment-buildings-are-under-russian-control-official

Once the Russians take complete control of Toretsk and no further challenge to their claim is possible, then we can change the outcome. WP:CRYSTAL Note that the infobox already says that Russians control most of the city, which is what both sides are saying right now. TurboSuperA+ (☏) 05:57, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Looks like it's changing hands again in a recent Ukrainian offensive. According to Ukrainian sources, the Russian southern flank has collapsed and they're in control of much of the northwest. At very least, it's still far too early to call it a Russian victory. 2A02:C7C:D340:B201:E0CB:9F43:9FD2:7211 (talk) 01:10, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 February 2025 (2)

Change "ongoing" to "Russian victory" Toretsk fell to the Russian forces as of 7th of February 2025. Sources: https://t.me/divgen/62901?single https://t.me/Sever_Z/9748 https://t.me/yuzhny_front_ZOV/12730 And the Russian ministery of Defence KingDato (talk) 13:44, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Already done Cannolis (talk) 20:39, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Russian Victory Confirmed

February 7th concludes battle of Toretsk with Russian victory.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-has-taken-control-city-toretsk-eastern-ukraine-2025-02-07/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:5553:B000:0:0:0:3B6 (talk) 14:48, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Why are we taking Russia at their word? Reuters is a credible source, but they are only reporting what Russia is saying. I think we should wait before we accept this as fact. --Der Overmind (talk) 16:23, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Both Reuters and the Russian MoD are credible sources as far as the war is concerned. There is no need for further confirmation imho, Ukraine will never concede that they lost a single battle, including Bakmutt, Mauripol and Crimea. It's telling that while Toresk has been blood red on Deep state war map for weeks the russian MoD hasn't claimed victory till today. There's no dispute that Toresk is fallen, has been functionally lost for weeks I just think today (Feb 7th 2025) is the actual "end of battle" as far as "history" is concerned. 2605:A601:5553:B000:0:0:0:3B6 (talk) 17:05, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

That's not true russia literally said they took chasiv yar when they didn't 99.209.189.170 (talk) 19:21, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

NO! IT DIDN'T SAY. UNDERSTOOD? 2A01:113F:203:3D00:8423:5298:C83F:6393 (talk) 22:01, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Ukraine still holds places in the city change it back to ongoing 2607:FEA8:C3C0:30C0:E481:1DD8:3C04:ED9D (talk) 23:16, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

"Ukraine still holds places in the city"

We need a WP:RS after 6 February saying it. Ukraine hasn't commented on the Russian claim of taking Toretsk, that's as good as a concession.

But right now the consensus among WP:RS is that Russia said they've taken Toretsk and that Ukraine has not responded to that. Reuters, AP, AFP are reporting it with many other news outlets syndicating the stories. None of them have made a claim that Ukraine is contesting the city. TurboSuperA+ (☏) 09:57, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

@TurboSuperA+ It does not work like that, there is a status quo that the battle is ongoing according to reliable sources, and if that is to be changed, the burden of proof is on you to give reliable sources to back it up.

As of now, only Markus Reisner claimed that, and since then specified that not 100% is controlled by Russia, but that fighting is going on in the outskirts. The same was said by the Centre for Eastern Studies.

The Russian MoD is not WP:RELIABLE, and news not mentioning something is not a reliable indicator for a major edit.

Please wait for more information on the situation on the battlefield, from reliable sources. Zerbrxsler (talk) 13:20, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

According to ISW, Russians are advancing west and north of Toretsk, per ISW.

"Russian forces recently advanced in the Toretsk direction amid continued offensive operations in the area of February 5. Russian forces continued attacking near Toretsk; on the northern outskirts of Toretsk; and west of Toretsk near Shcherbynivka on February 4 and 5.[45]"

I'm no geographologist, but to me it sounds like Russia controls the city and has moved passed it. TurboSuperA+ (☏) 13:33, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

@TurboSuperA+ This mentions fighting at the northern outskirts, which are also part of the city. If it's not confirmed, it's not confirmed. We are not a WP:CRYSTALBALL. Wait for clear, definitive claims by ISW or other reliable sources. Zerbrxsler (talk) 13:40, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm OK with that. When I checked yesterday, Ukraine had no comment. But today they are reporting Ukraine has denied the city was captured, saying they are still fighting in the outskirts. I'm not going to change the outcome again, someone else can eventually do it. TurboSuperA+ (☏) 14:24, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2025

Write that it has been proven that ukraine is still in the city and not just "Ukraine denies it". Also get off sebastion sas you guys and get real info Chasiv 25 (talk) 01:35, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Not done for now Hi Chasiv 25! I guess you mean these two sentences: "A Ukrainian spokesperson denied that Russian forces controlled over half the city.[68] Geolocated footage as of 15 October could confirm Russian control over 42% of the city.[69]" How would you like to change these sentences? Please provide a source. Also, you say "get off sebastion sas": For which sentence(s) would you like to change the existing source into which different source?
I am going to change the extended-protected template to "answered=yes", but if you have formulated exactly which edit you would like us to make, please feel free to change back to "answered=no". Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 09:47, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I mean to say it that is confirmed by both sides that russia does not control the whole city and not just say ukraine denis it. As for the Sebastian sas part that has nothing to do with this article and more with the editor TurbosuperA+ as he often permots russian propaganda. That even youtubers like Ukraine Matters is talking about it. As for sources https://ukrainetoday.org/toretsk-surrounded-ukrainian-trap-is-closing-in-rfu-news/ Chasiv 25 (talk) 02:39, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

"thethat has nothing to do with this article and more with the editor TurbosuperA+ as he often permots russian propaganda"

You need to stop accusing me. At this point it is becoming harassment. I've been more than patient with you, but that patience is running out. TurboSuperA+ (☏) 04:06, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I will stop I am not trying to annoy you I am simply trying to get you imploment my edits requests. Also you started this when you said I was lying when ukraine held places in the city. And if you do or don't follow sebastian sas is up to you I would just advice agansit it. Chasiv 25 (talk) 02:42, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I never said you were lying, I said you need to provide WP:RS. I also said I won't be making any more changes to the status of the battle, so I don't know why you keep pestering me about it.

You can just make a properly formatted edit request and if your request is backed by WP:RS someone will come along and change it. TurboSuperA+ (☏) 06:38, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Okay thank you for letting me know Chasiv 25 (talk) 02:09, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 April 2025

Change status from "Ongoing" to "Russian Victory" and Territorial Changes from "Russian forces capture large parts of Toretsk and the towns of Shumy, Zalizne, Pivdenne, Druzhba, Pivnichne, and Niu-York" to "Russian forces capture Toretsk and surrounding towns." Venis069 (talk) 20:08, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

They have also gone up the highway north of Toretsk. I agree. Bcom123 (talk) 14:59, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 15:37, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

There is now no proof that Russians actually continue to hold positions along that highway to the north. Also, Russians never successfully seized all of Toretsk; in fact, Ukraine once again restarted counterattacking. Waited2seconds (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2025

Change the dates for the length of the Battle, yes the Battle of Toretsk has been ongoing since June 18th, 2024, but it shows it as from June 18th, 2024 and to present as a period of 7 months and three weeks. Using sources such as ISW, while Russia controls almost all of Toretsk, there are still very small parts of the northeastern outskirts that are still observed under Ukrainian control, regardless of this discrepancy, Ukraine's presence has gone longer than that time of 7 months and three weeks since they did counterattacks, and geolocated footage would back this up as well. So change 7 months and three weeks to 11 months, 2 weeks, and one day. ObamaCrockadile (talk) 18:06, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

 Done SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:43, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Bakhmut 2.0?

So this article is just going to be a repeat of the Battle of Bakhmut fiasco where pro-Ukraine editors are going to keep insisting that the battle is still ongoing even though there’s geolocation footage showing the opposite of that just because Ukrainian military officials deny it? 32.220.159.150 (talk) 04:45, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Update on this page?

Russian forces have been confirmed to secure the northeastern outskirts of Toretsk and it seems the city itself has been completely captured except a small chunk in western Toretsk (still currently a grey zone as it still unclear if Ukrainian troops have retreated there) 2A01:599:300:CB48:7C6A:97B1:698B:13EF (talk) 08:40, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Doesn’t fit the narrative so they won’t do it 32.220.159.150 (talk) 20:57, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

Azov brigade

Azov is in the national guard, yet the “units involved” section claims the unit is in the Ground Forces. Someone fix this please 2603:8000:E203:922:5820:A800:80EC:CE53 (talk) 00:34, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 June 2025

Toretsk is mostly occupied by the Russians, I would believe that this is a Russian Victory. Liveuamap and many other websites show that Toretsk is occupied by Russia. Russia even says that they captured it way back in February, and with the April and May advances, its most likely Russia already occupies it Russianamericangeography12 (talk) 16:38, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Day Creature (talk) 17:31, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

I agree. Russian forces have been confirmed to secure the entire northern outskirts too. 2A01:599:306:2AC:8847:FC8E:DC63:FD5A (talk) 18:50, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

Battle (for the city) concluded

Except for some small unit infiltration skirmishes outside of the city of Toretsk near Petrivka, Russia has both full control of the city, and fighting is happening over 1km north of the city (ISW). Earlier Russia appeared to capture nearly the entire city, but Ukraine was able to continue conducting small-unit infiltrations and maintain a few salients, but that doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Weather you support Ukraine or Russia, insisting or denying the situation isn't how information should be shared. If someone could prove me wrong about Russia's securing of the city please do so!

-At the lease, could someone update the Toretsk frontline map? It's still showing a picture from March I8TheCompetition (talk) 17:27, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you. The result must be fixed and changed. 2A01:599:321:78A4:F1B4:E4B:23A9:C33 (talk) 15:54, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

Well, as an illustration of the battle, the picture from March is more informative than one that is solid red, say. Much better would be a picture with arrows, of course... Smeagol 17 (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

Conclusion

As shown here: https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-10-2025

Should be changed to Russian Victory 2A01:599:316:A6C7:984D:781E:587F:CF79 (talk) 20:28, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

Russian Victory Confirmed

Should be added that Russia has won the battle. Acknowledged by a variety of mappers and will likely soon be confirmed by Ukrainian MOD. 134.56.219.213 (talk) 04:50, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

Geolocated footage has yet to be released proving it. Furthermore, pro-Ukrainian sources have from time to time asserted very small, but persistently stubborn Ukrainian presence in the city. ISW has for the past few months remained to have shown that the vast majority is captured, and the entirety is claimed by Russia. Regardless, like Chasiv Yar, eventually regardless of claims is set to fall given either by continued frontal assaults or the recent pressure from Petrivka that makes resupply/reinforcing nearly impossible in a few weeks or months. Still no solid sources for reports of total Russian capture by official Russian sources other than milbloggers or mappers. Expect something within the next month either a Ukrainian admittance of defeat or undeniable Russian evidence of capture. ObamaCrockadile (talk) 20:49, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

Toretsk effectively fell at least a month ago.

Toretsk fell long ago.

A month ago, let's say, it was possible to clarify something once again, wait until they finally left, etc. But now it is simply inadequate to write about some "ongoing battle". All the ravens have long since flown away from that battlefield.The bones of the fallen turned white.

For example, there is "Creamy Caprice" (https://t.me/creamy_caprice) - an OSINT resource that draws maps exclusively from video links of both sides - from geolocated points where the presence of capable infantry with their feet on the ground is noted. The resource uses videos posted by telegram channels of war correspondents and units of both armies, even the smallest channels with 100 subscribers, dragging them into the light of day if original footage appears there that can be geolocated. They probably have the most complete library of all. "Creamy caprice" is radical in the sense of avoiding any subjective factors. When drawing a map, it not only refuses to use famous or anonymous people, statements by officials, the press, expert opinions, etc. as sources. But it does not even use considerations of the relief and everything else from the category of "common sense". The entire map is drawn by a simple mathematical algorithm, quite trivially connecting geolocated points obtained by the authors from a huge number of analyzed videos.

All points are saved, the history of their addition, as well as the evolution of the map, can be traced.

So, according to the data of "Creamy Caprice", and I simply do not know more objective data, the last appearance of Ukrainian soldiers in the Toretsk area occurred months ago. Not only the city limits, but also all the surrounding areas have been controlled by the Russian army for several months. And the nearest section of the front line is located more than a kilometer to the west of the Toretsk border and is stable in this regard. This is the nearest point. Basically, the front line runs 5 or more kilometers from the border of Toretsk. 92.62.59.147 (talk) 22:43, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

agreed 2A01:599:323:B159:4062:8EFF:917A:540 (talk) 13:12, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Toretsk Battle Likely Over, but lack of Sources and Geolocated Evidence makes proving it impossible.

Many of us, pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian probably could agree Toretsk has likely fallen already. But, the problem is we lack sources. Russia claimed the city all the way back in Early Feburary, which was quickly disproven when Ukrainians counterattacked in March, retaking significant portions of the west, north and re-entering parts of the center for a time. But Russian assaults slowly pushed them out. ISW for the past month and a half + has claimed that there is Russian claimed but not taken parts of Toretsk. In the northeast center, but with how Russians have advanced in Petrivka-Schchbrynivka it makes it heavily doubtful that there is Ukrainian holdouts anymore. ObamaCrockadile (talk) 16:37, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

The lack of sources is indeed a problem. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) (contributions) 16:46, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

@SaintPaulOfTarsus no longer. ISW in its Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 7, 2025 confirms seizure of Toretsk is now completed by the Russian forces. I've done the needful in the article per it. Shaan Sengupta^Talk 04:26, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) (contributions) 08:28, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

The ISW map has for the first time shown all of Toretsk now under "assessed Russian advances" which in effect means even the mostly pro-Ukrainian ISW concedes Toretsk is lost to Russia however the actual text assessment is still from 2 days ago so will need to wait until the text assessment is published unless of course another source of equal or greater reliability can confirm the capture of Toretsk already. 49.184.114.220 (talk) 01:26, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

Toretsk situation truely an unforunate product of the fog of war, same with Chasiv Yar, underreported. The only sources remained pro-Ukrainians who had an agenda sometimes to push and which made honest stories, the few hard to know of their legitimacy. Mainstream media not often covered it. What is crazy to me is there is still telegram channels and accounts on twitter claiming a few last tiny pockets of Ukrainian forces trapped in Toretsk, of course visual evidence impossible, media could never get to Toretsk, but it just goes to show the stubbornness of this conflict. Regardless, Wikipedia in it of itself is a website foundationally based on using the most reliable sources, which means the sketchy stories must be disregarded, even if true. It's been an honour being a part of this mystery game for the status of the city throughout the battle. Not at all a request, just discussing such is the uncertainty of doing Wikipedia edits for such an article as this. Attached below if any of you are interested is the alleged reports, of course so much grain of salt taken.

Playfra on X: "After more than a year, the legendary battle of Toretsk is still not over. As also confirmed by https://t.co/w0gqWlmjOE, and then clarified by my source, the last groups of Ukrainian resistance still somehow remain in the city as of August 27th, trapped and without possibility of https://t.co/R38TNCwq0C" / X

Telegram: View @myro_shnykov ObamaCrockadile (talk) 00:19, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Add photos to battle of Toretsk section

Use the attached image used by Reuters as an image for the section of the Battle of Toretsk to depict the battle.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-has-taken-control-city-toretsk-eastern-ukraine-2025-02-07/

some other great photos you could add to the battle section:

https://x.com/Liberov/status/1818540312576360900/photo/1

https://x.com/Playfra0/status/1961013630591189419/photo/1 ObamaCrockadile (talk) 02:11, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. - Umby 🌕🐶 (talk · contribs) 04:10, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 November 2025

Change the units involved section to include Charlie Company of the 1st Battalion of the International Legion for the Defense of Ukraine.

Source: https://ildu.mil.gov.ua/news/third-generation-german-soldier-now-fighting-russia? ~2025-31431-31 (talk) 15:59, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. That source does not mention the company or battalion name. Day Creature (talk) 23:44, 5 November 2025 (UTC)