Talk:Battle of Ming Sha

Lie in the article

the number of Göktürks soldiers does not match the numbers given in the sources, And there is no consistency between the content of the article that reports a Kul tigin victory with huge Chinese loss and no information about seemingly light Turkic losses Frenchprotector29 (talk) 11:14, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Primary sources

This article, along with the others of the same ilk, uses unverifiable sources and has an over reliance on primary sources as well. This article should be assessed, sources verified, and rewritten properly. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:29, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. @Gokturklerrr: Would it be possible to for you to improve the sourcing in the article? Also, could the Sorularla Eski Türk Tarihi citation be moved inline so we know which part(s) of the article are based on it? Finally, it would be helpful if you could include a quotation from Sorularla Eski Türk Tarihi since this is not an English source. Thanks. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 20:40, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Number of Gokturk soldiers

Hello, first of all, good night. While this war is an important and glorious victory for Turkish history, the figure of 300 is a huge exaggeration and is almost never mentioned in any source; it's probably just hearsay. Neither the Chinese sources nor the Orkhon inscriptions mention it, so this needs to be improved. Unfortunately, the sources you provide are inconsistent. They were either written incorrectly or left that way on purpose. It needs to be rewritten and corrected as soon as possible, or at least these figures. Tarih sevdalısı 123 (talk) 21:54, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

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Why do you edit the article without reading it?

@Alexandros17 @Military history RUS Please read the article before editing, what are you doing? The main part of the article is about Kul Tigin, who was taken from the Kultigini Bitiktoshi and survived 100 bullets, and the Chinese army was 80 thousand, and Kul Tigin had 300 (although this is a huge exaggeration). What have you done? The uncertainty in the number of troops does not match the article because it contains the number of troops. Please do not re-edit the article. BBotirk (talk) 11:21, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

@BBotirk It is mathematically impossible for 300 people to defeat 80,000 people in a battle. Even if it appears in primary sources, it is absurd to consider it "reliable" and include it in the article. We need modern consensus on this. Alexandros17 (talk) 11:44, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

You are right about this, but don't forget that since it is mentioned in the Kul Tigin Inscription, it has the right to be included, unfortunately there are no modern sources. In Gumilev's work "Ancient Turks", he admitted that the Tang army was 80 thousand, but he was content to say that the Turkic army was very small. Don't forget that Wikipedia writes even if the sources are exaggerated, even in the Battle of Gaugamela it is written about 1 million troops and compared with modern sources. However, we have few modern sources about the Battle of Ming Sha, so no matter how exaggerated it is, we are forced to turn to the Kul Tigin Inscription for the number of troops. If you are too determined to change it, look for another source about the number of troops. BBotirk (talk) 12:07, 19 March 2026 (UTC)