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Talk:Basem Abdo

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Latest comment: 11 months ago by LivelyRatification in topic First Palestinian

Page should be reverted to draft

[edit]

Seat has not been called, result will be in doubt for another 9+ days 124.148.103.167 (talk) 04:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Agree. He has not won the seat yet 43.231.68.115 (talk) 02:08, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Deorodded

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Whether or not he won, using the Proposed Deletion method for an election is almost always controversial. Controversial topics like religion, politics, social class, and race should be discussed more openly. Prod has no nuances to debate or discuss, and is also a "backwater" on Wikipedia. The appropriate forum is WP:AfD, where many of the most active Wikipedians debate publicly about nominations, and there are many options for alternatives to deletion. Bearian (talk) 02:41, 13 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

First Palestinian

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Looked into the claim about who was the first Palestinain in the parliament. It seems on the surface that Joe Hockey was first, but his father was of Armenian descent according to ABC Jon698 (talk) 06:42, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Abdo also clearly talks about his Palestinian heritage while all of the mentions of Hockey and Palestine is just about his father. Jon698 (talk) 06:46, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
There's also Joe Berinson. This is complicated, because Berinson was Jewish, and since 1948, the term Palestinian Jew has fallen out of use. However, its obviously possible to say Berinson was the first person of Palestinian descent to be elected to the Australian Parliament. I think extraordinary claims require extraordinary sourcing, which https://amesnews.com.au is not. Steelkamp (talk) 06:48, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Steelkamp A few other sources list him as the first Palestinian in parliament. I'll add them in the morning. 1 2 Jon698 (talk) 07:01, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Fair enough. Those sources are definitely adequate. Steelkamp (talk) 07:04, 22 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Joe Hockey's father was Palestinian, he is of Palestinian descent 138.217.42.98 (talk) 06:32, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Source please? That also doesn't override the fact that we have sources specifically saying Abdo is the first Palestinian. GraziePrego (talk) 06:39, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
https://www.afr.com/rear-window/tributes-flow-for-joe-hockeys-father-richard-20161017-gs429w
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/is-joe-hockey-australia-s-most-misunderstood-politician-20120911-ixx3q
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3843478/Joe-Hockey-s-father-Richard-Hockey-dies-age-89-Sydney.html
How many do you need its easily verified 138.217.42.98 (talk) 06:42, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@138.217.42.98 Once again, these sources are just talking about his father. These are not discussing Hockey talking about himself as a Palestinian. Jon698 (talk) 07:16, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Also other sources list Hockey's father as being of Armenian descent. The usage of Palestinian in this context could be "person born in Palestine". Jon698 (talk) 07:21, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
a person born in Palestine is a palestinian 49.183.33.206 (talk) 07:25, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@49.183.33.206 You do understand the clear difference between being born in Palestine and being a member of the ethic group? Jon698 (talk) 07:29, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Palestinian isn't an ethnic group, they are Arabs 49.183.33.206 (talk) 07:39, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@49.183.33.206 Fundamentally wrong. Jon698 (talk) 07:40, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
ok, based on this standard should we remove "Australian Politician" as Basem is not Australian? 49.183.33.206 (talk) 07:46, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون, romanized: al-Filasṭīniyyūn) are an Arab ethnonational group
Literally from the wikipedia page 49.183.33.206 (talk) 07:49, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@49.183.33.206 Thank you for posting information proving yourself wrong. What do you think ethnonationalist means? Jon698 (talk) 07:55, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
So then why is he also described as Australian? 121.200.5.140 (talk) 13:25, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
if Joe Hockeys father is Palestinian, does it not stand to reason Joe hockey is of palestinian descent? Are you asking to prove that is actually his father?? 49.183.33.206 (talk) 07:22, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Sources differ on the ethnic identity of Hockey's father and Hockey himself has never made a newsworthy mention of having Palestinian heritage. Meanwhile Abdo has clearly identified himself as a Palestinian. Jon698 (talk) 07:27, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
sources don't differ, they all say his father was born in Palestine. You don't have to identify yourself as palestinian to descend from palestinians 49.183.33.206 (talk) 07:45, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hockey advocated for Palestinian statehood because he was Palestinian, he established parliamentary friends of Palestine and was a very influential advocate of it.
https://apan.org.au/auspol/anthony-albanese-mp-speech-on-the-retirement-of-former-treasurer-joe-hockey-mp-noting-hockeys-family-heritage-in-bethlehem-palestine/
Saying he never made a newsworthy remark on it is wrong. On his Wikipedia page, it states Joe Hockey was the first Palestinian in parliament and has for a very long time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hockey
https://apan.org.au/auspol/anthony-albanese-mp-speech-on-the-retirement-of-former-treasurer-joe-hockey-mp-noting-hockeys-family-heritage-in-bethlehem-palestine/ 122.151.150.75 (talk) 09:36, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
https://apan.org.au/auspol/anthony-albanese-mp-speech-on-the-retirement-of-former-treasurer-joe-hockey-mp-noting-hockeys-family-heritage-in-bethlehem-palestine/
Recognition from the PM of Australia in Joe Hockeys advocacy for Palestine.
Why do you refuse to acknowledge this? 49.183.33.206 (talk) 12:09, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
What's going on here? Where is this refusal to acknowledge Hockey's Palestinian heritage coming from? It's not controversial and never has been. This is a matter of public record and has been for years, it's an established and widely accepted fact. If sources say Abdo is the first then they are clearly mistaken; it would not be the first time that otherwise reliable sources have made and repeated an error. This is an obvious case of WP:COMMONSENSE and I would like to hear an explanation for why this obviously false claim should not be immediately removed. 5225C (talk  contributions) 11:55, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Its because there are ethno-nationalist communists who refuse to believe a non-Arab non-Muslim can be part of the Palestinian nation. 49.183.33.206 (talk) 12:47, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
My view on the topic is more or less, as follows:
- Abdo is obviously not the first MP to have Palestinian heritage, insofar as he is not the first MP to have direct family from the area of Palestine. Berinson for one, but also Hockey. This does not, to me, seem controversial.
- Abdo has been occasionally reported, as already cited, as being the first MP of Palestinian heritage. I can't recall if I added that factoid to this article, but I believe I've seen it in the media before, and reliable sources like the SBS said as such.
- Abdo is obviously the first MP of ethnically Palestinian ancestry -- he is the son of Palestinian refugees, and is ethnically Palestinian. See: Palestinian-Australian in The Guardian, first Palestinian-Australian in SMH, Labor's Palestinian-Australian candidate in The Australian.
Meanwhile, while Hockey's father is obviously Palestinian -- ethnically Armenian, but from the country of Palestine, I have found very few sources that claim that Hockey himself is. A Google search for "Joe Hockey" and "Palestinian" produces a lot of stuff citing Hockey's Palestinian heritage -- the already cited APAN source where Anthony Albanese says his dad was born in Bethlehem, AFR calling him fathered by a Palestinian orphan and saying his dad was born a Catholic Palestinian in Bethlehem. SMH calls Hockey the son of a Palestinian (and also mentions Hockey called himself Arab outside a mosque in Lakemba). 9 News says Hockey is always be proud of his Palestinian heritage. And SBS says Hockey is the son of an Armenian-born Palestinian.
To me, it seems incorrect to describe Abdo as the first MP of Palestinian heritage. There are multiple reliable sources saying that Joe Hockey also had Palestinian heritage, and obviously there's the case of Berinson, the son of Palestinian Jews. But Abdo seems to me to be the first ethnically Palestinian MP, and I think this is worth noting. I would perhaps replace the current wording with any of "Abdo is the first ethnically Palestinian MP to serve in the Parliament of Australia", "Abdo is the first Palestinian to serve in the Parliament of Australia", or "Abdo is the first Palestinian Arab to serve in the Parliament of Australia". LivelyRatification (talk) 12:49, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
To clarify slightly, there is obviously an abundance of sources of saying that Joe Hockey is of Palestinian heritage. I am not convinced that many describe Joe Hockey himself as Palestinian without any qualifiers. Hell, I could only find the SMH source saying that Hockey had ever described himself as Palestinian ("In many meetings [Hockey] has brought up that he's Palestinian, mentioned supporting the Palestinian cause, the human rights cause"). LivelyRatification (talk) 12:53, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Neither of them were born in Palestine, why is one descent more important than another? 121.200.5.140 (talk) 13:24, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@LivelyRatification I think that is a perfectly reasonable compromise. The third one you suggested would be the best in my opinion. Jon698 (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
Also after some further reading, I can find no sources calling Joe Berinson Palestinian. A speech from Peter Collier says his father was born "in what was then Palestine", this from a record about his sister says his parents were from Safed, Palestine, the Australian Dictionary of Biography says he was born to Jewish immigrants from Palestine. An ABC article from 2003 about a newspaper ad from the "Hamas Support Group" makes no mention of Berinson or his parents' background, despite comment from him in his capacity as a representative of the Jewish Community Council. A cursory search of Google Books also finds nothing, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was more information available in digitally unavailable literary sources. LivelyRatification (talk) 23:03, 22 August 2025 (UTC)Reply