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Latest comment: 4 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion
@LouisAragon: Hello. I believe detailing the Olson and Swietochowski sources is redundant as they're both reliable sources that don't use attribution in other articles where they're cited. I propose changing the sentence to "They are a sub-ethnic group of Azerbaijanis." — Goldencall me maybe?22:39, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
They're reliable sources, but they weren't cited in an appropriate way. Olson et al. is an ethnographic handbook of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, not one dedicated to Caucasus/Iranian/Turkic etcetera history. If Olson et al. mentions the Ayrums as part of the Azerbaijanis, then thats in relation to the period under the Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Swietochowski's dictionary, similarly, only gives a brief outlay of topics pertaining to Azerbaijan. The Iranica entry on the other hand, specifically dedicated to the Ayrums and written by P. Oberling, a historian and ethnographer who amongst others specialized in the history of the Turkic groups of West Asia, refers to the Ayrums as a Turkic tribe. For some reason, you tried to remove this. Oberling's statement fits with the narrative presented by the majority WP:RS which state and verify that the term "Azerbaijani" wasn't used in an ethnic sense until the 19th/20th centuries. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:52, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
If your concern is that Ayrums were only classified as a subgroup of "Azerbaijanis" after the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, we could state this in the lead with "They were considered a sub-ethnic group of Azerbaijanis after the nineteenth and twentieth centuries" without taking up 80 percent of the lead with attribution.
I removed the phrase "Turkic tribe" because it seemed redundant with the phrase "subgroup of Azerbaijanis" in the lead, as Azerbaijanis are also Turkic. — Goldencall me maybe?23:08, 9 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
Proposal:
"Ayrums (Azerbaijani: Ayrımlar, in Persian often as Âyromlū) are a Turkic tribe,<Iranica> considered to be a sub-ethnic group of Azerbaijanis after the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.<Olson et al><Swietochowski>."
