Talk:Ascalon

Sources for expansion

Middle Bronze:

• EGYPTIAN POTTERY IN MIDDLE BRONZE AGE ASHKELON
• In Ashkelon 6 there's a chapter on Ashkelon during the MB.

Late Bronze:

• A Cuneiform Lexical Text from Ashkelon with a Canaanite Column
• The Ashkelon Relief at Karnak and the Israel Stela
• Merneptah's Campaign to Canaan and the Egyptian Occupation of the Southern Coastal Plain of Palestine in the Ramesside Period
• A New Hieratic Ostracon from Ashkelon
• "Egyptian Fingerprints at Late Bronze Age Ashkelon" - Martin 2009
• EGYPTIANS AT ASHKELON? AN ASSEMBLAGE OF EGYPTIAN AND EGYPTIAN-STYLE POTTERY

Iron Age:

• Cypro-Minoan Inscriptions Found in Ashkelon
• CHRONOLOGICAL OBSERVATIONS AT THE DAWN OF THE IRON AGE IN ASHKELON
• ASHKELON AND THE ARCHAEOLOGY OF DESTRUCTION: KISLEV 604 BCE
• The Philistine Cemetery of Ashkelon
• The House Shrine of Ashkelon
• THE RENEWAL OF TRADE AT IRON AGE I ASHKELON
• Trade and Politics: Ashkelon's Balancing Act in the Seventh Century B. C. E.
• https://www.jstor.org/stable/1355749
• Ancient DNA sheds light on the genetic origins of early Iron Age Philistines

Byzantine period:

• Julian of Ascalon's Treatise of Construction and Design Rules from Sixth-Century Palestine
• Ascalon as a Hellenic Intellectual Center in the Fifth and Sixth Centuries / אשקלון כמרכז אינטלקטואלי הלני במאה החמישית והשישית

Ottoman period:

• עסקלאן אל‑ ג'דידה : השלטון המצרי וההתיישבות המצרית באזור אשקלון 1831 ‑ 1948 עורך/כים: אברהם ששון, רפאל י' לואיס ודניאל וורגה שם הספר: אשקלון : מרחב מחיה ומרחב לחימה : קובץ מחקרים על מישור החוף הדרומי ושפלת יהודה מקום ההוצאה: תל אביב שם ההוצאה: רסלינג שנת ההוצאה: 2022 עמוד: 255

Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:26, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Removed

"The absence of a port was recounted also by later scholars such as Izz al-Din ibn Shaddad (1217–1285) and Abulfeda (1273–1331). It was cited as one of the reason why Ascalon was one of the last coastal cities to stand against the Crusaders." This paragraph followed a sentence about Khusraw that misrepresented his statements about the city. It is also out of place in the chronology. Abulfeda does say there is no harbor (he says so in Le Strange's work which I just added, if anyone wants a ref to readd it somewhere further on). Tiamut (talk) 07:54, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry, I don't understand your entry.

First, I'm making my comments visible:

"The absence of a port{{dubious |Absence??!! Being a port city was its raison d'etre! |date= August 2024}} was recounted also by later scholars such as Izz al-Din ibn Shaddad (1217–1285) and Abulfeda (1273–1331). It was cited as one of the reason why Ascalon was one of the last coastal cities to stand against the Crusaders{{dubious |NO, being a port city allowed it to withstand Crusader attacks, as it could be resupplied from Egypt by sea. |date= August 2024}}."

• We can't just remove whatever looks contradictory, if it's based on a RS (Sharon in this case). Is anything misquoted? If not: does any RS explain the mystery?
• Abulfeda does say there is no harbor: again, what could he have meant? Maybe just that there's no proper, protective bay, which I do believe was always the case? Or that in his time the port facilities were absent (had been destroyed)?

This issue is highly relevant: Ascalon losing its mai purpose, that of a port city, at certain times in its history. The chronology is essential in this matter.

References

Arminden (talk) 10:55, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

I removed it because it was in the wrong section (Fatimid). It can be readded as part of the events it is connected to. Port seems to have been destroyed when the city's fortifications were. Found two useful excerpts from Le Strange:

"Abul Fida in the fourteenth century writes : "'Askalan, in Filastin, is a town where there are ancient remains. It lies on the sea coast. Between it and Ghazzah the distance is about three leagues. It is one of the fortresses of Islam in Syria. Muhallabi says 'Askalan stands by the sea-shore on an elevation, and is one of the finest of the coast towns. It has no harbour. Its inhabitants drink well-water, which is sweet (not brackish). Between it and Ghazzah the distance is 10 miles, and between it and Ar Ramlah 18 miles. At the present day it is in ruins, and there are no inhabitants." (A. F., 231.)" (LeStrange, p. 402) ...  

Note also that Dimashqi writes in 1300: "South of this lay the Kingdom of Ghazzah (Gaza), the capital of which was anciently called Ghazzah Hashim. " It is a city so rich in trees as to be like a cloth of brocade spread out on the sand. To the Ghazzah Kingdom at times were counted 'Askalan, which belonged to the Franks, and which the Muslims took and destroyed; Ycifa (Jaffa), Kaisariyyah, Arsuf, Ad Darun, and Al 'Arish." (p. 42) Tiamut (talk) 18:18, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Also to clarify, modified Khusraw in the edit to match the cited text. He said nothing about the harbor/port at all. Tiamut (talk) 18:23, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, I see!

Very confusing. A Russian dolls-style quote. Where does the quoted text by Muhallabi start & end within Le Strange's quote from Abul Fida? :) I guess it's Muhallabi who calls it "one of the finest of the coast towns", while Abul Fida describes it in his own voice as "in ruins, and there are no inhabitants" - or not, since Abul Fida himself also writes that "It is one of the fortresses of Islam in Syria", in the present tense? One reason why we shouldn't use primary sources is that in the more remote past, even "scholars" often didn't manage to write in clear sentences. Arminden (talk) 17:05, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

Notes.

• Abulfeda, Taqwim al-Buldan (1321)
• al-Hasan ibn Ahmad al-Muhallabi, Book of Roads and Kingdoms (10th century) - see also Book of Roads and Kingdoms

Correct? Arminden (talk) 17:54, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

Believe so yes. Think Muhallabi is not quoted, just paraphrased and it applies only to the sentence his name is in. Tiamut (talk) 18:02, 9 December 2025 (UTC)