Talk:Armenian genocide

Note to self: new sources

• Akçam, Taner (2023). "The Armenian Genocide: An Overview". The Cambridge World History of Genocide: Volume 3: Genocide in the Contemporary Era, 1914–2020. Cambridge University Press. pp. 67–92. ISBN 978-1-108-76711-8.
• Akçam, Taner (2024). "Top-Down and Local Violence in the Late Ottoman Empire: The Role of Security Concerns and a Century of "Accumulated Experience"". Journal of Genocide Research. 26 (2): 121–141. doi:10.1080/14623528.2022.2127488.

If the same author gives two different figures, which Wikipedia policy governs the choice between them?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The article currently cites Suny (2015), p. xviii, as reference [12] for the following sentence: “On the eve of World War I in 1914, around two million Armenians lived in Ottoman territory, mostly in Anatolia, a region with a total population of 15–17.5 million”. This wording does not, mildly speaking, accurately reproduce what Suny actually writes. Suny states: “Some 2 million Christian Armenians lived in the Ottoman lands, most of them peasants and townspeople in the six provinces of eastern Anatolia”. Here, too, he specifically mentions “eastern Anatolia”, not that Armenians lived “mostly in Anatolia”, an editorial distortion that is simply not in the author's work. More importantly, Suny gives a different figure elsewhere. In his article "Armenian Genocide" (https://www.britannica.com/event/Armenian-Genocide), he writes: "At the beginning of the 20th century, there were about 2.5 million Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire, mostly concentrated in the six provinces of Eastern Anatolia". Thus, the same author gives two different figures for the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire. The question is not which figure is “correct”, but which Wikipedia policy governs the choice between them. If editors prefer the figure of around 2 million, what policy or sourcing principle allows it to be selected over Suny’s later figure of about 2.5 million, and what editorial basis justifies presenting one figure without acknowledging the discrepancy? This is not a case of choosing one source among several competing authors, where contributors might be accused of “cherry-picking” reliable sources. The discrepancy exists within the work of one and the same author, so there is no way that “cherry-picking” could legitimately apply here.~2026-43456-40 (talk) 16:52, 7 August 2026 (UTC)Davidian

We generally prefer scholarly sources over Britannica articles even when they have an attributed author. Eastern Anatolia is part of Anatolia so the statement naturally follows per WP:CALC. IIRC, I wrote it that way because Suny didn't provide total population figures for the six vilayets/Eastern Anatolia. (t · c) buIdhe 22:48, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

So, I take it that “We generally prefer scholarly sources over Britannica articles” does not amount to a Wikipedia policy or sourcing principle that allows editors to choose one piece of information over another. It is just a matter of individual editorial preference. Correct? I will leave aside, for now, the nonsense that “Eastern Anatolia is part of Anatolia” and focus on reference [12] and the original question. In Definition of a Source (WP:SOURCEDEF), Wikipedia:Reliable sources (WP:RELIABILITY) says that “[A]ny of the four can affect reliability: reliable sources may be published materials with a reliable publication process, authors who are regarded as authoritative in relation to the subject, or both”, while in WP:RSPRIMARY, Wikipedia:Reliable sources explicitly says that “[R]eputable tertiary sources, such as introductory-level university textbooks, almanacs, and encyclopedias, may be cited”. So, given that, according to Wikipedia’s own policy, authors who are regarded as authoritative in relation to the subject are reliable sources, what prevented the editors from at least acknowledging that the same author has given a different figure in a publication that, according to Wikipedia’s own policy, may be cited?~2026-43627-90 (talk) 15:31, 8 August 2026 (UTC)Davidian

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 August 2026

I would suggest to add in the first paragraph that this event gave the rise to the word genocide. ~2026-45636-31 (talk) 21:57, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want made. Day Creature (talk) 03:12, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

Subject: Request for NPOV Balance: Inclusion of Official Archives, Legal Precedents, and Primary Sources

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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I would like to propose an edit to improve the article's compliance with Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View (NPOV) and Verifiability (V) policies. Currently, the article heavily relies on a single narrative and largely omits critical primary sources, international legal precedents, and demographic data that present a different historical context.

To ensure a balanced and comprehensive encyclopedia entry, the following verified aspects should be integrated into the relevant sections:

1. The Legal Dimension (Malta Tribunals 1919-1921): The British Crown Prosecution investigated detained Ottoman officials in Malta for two years, searching British, American, and Ottoman archives. Due to a lack of evidence proving a "central intent of destruction" or systematic plan, the British authorities dropped all charges, resulting in non-prosecution and the release of all detainees. This legal precedent is crucial for the legal definitions of the events.
2. Primary Armenian & Regional Sources: The article should include the 1923 manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni (the first Prime Minister of Armenia), where he explicitly stated that Armenian volunteer units sabotaged the peace, revolted under Allied promises, and that the Ottoman relocation was a domestic defense mechanism. Furthermore, the military reports of Russian Generals Yudenich and Tverdokhlebov detailing the insubordination of Armenian militias should be cited.
3. Ottoman State Measures & General Wartime Conditions: Ottoman archival data (such as the Muhacirin Tahsisatı funds and Divân-ı Harb-i Örfi court-martial records) demonstrate that the state allocated budgets for the safety/feeding of the relocated population and prosecuted hundreds of its own Muslim officials who mistreated the deportees. The tragic loss of life must be contextually framed alongside the widespread typhus, cholera epidemics, and severe famine that also decimated over a million Muslim civilians and soldiers in the region.
4. Post-War Demographics: According to post-war reports from the League of Nations (Fridtjof Nansen Office) and Near East Relief (1919-1921), over 1,200,000 Ottoman Armenian survivors were documented across the Caucasus, Syria, Lebanon, and Western nations, which directly challenges the inflated casualty figures presented in the current text.

I suggest creating a dedicated subsection for the "Turkish Historical Thesis and Counter-Arguments" to reflect these peer-reviewed and archival viewpoints, as failing to do so constitutes a severe breach of NPOV.

References to be utilized:

• Stanford J. Shaw, History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey.
• Edward J. Erickson, Ordered to Die: A History of the Ottoman Army in the First World War.
• Hovhannes Katchaznouni, The Dashnagzoutiun Has Nothing To Do Anymore (1923 Manifesto).
• James G. Harbord, Conditions in the Near East: Report of the American Military Mission to Armenia (NARA records).

~2026-53938-77 (talk) 16:14, 6 October 2026 (UTC)

Secondary sources are generally preferred over primary sources on Wikipedia, especially primary sources from the country that carried out the genocide. Szxq (talk) 17:21, 6 October 2026 (UTC)