Talk:Andinia Plan

March 2007

The "Andinia Plan" is a fantasy by Argentine anti-Semites cobbling together facts from here and there and confusing, on purpose, immigration to Argentina (which was above board and encouraged by Argentine authorities from 1880 onwards) with an imaginary plan to carve out a Jewish state within Argentina.

Herzl did mention Argentina but the idea never took wing. Actually, the practical alternative proposed to Herzl was in present-day Uganda. That was the issue that split the Zionist congress. There never was any practical discussion of a Jewish state in Argentina during Zionist congresses.

Propose editing deeply and/or deleting. elpincha 15:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Not true

I also propose this article for deletion. Andinia Plan is an unfounded antisemitic libel which claim that Israeli soldiers where inmigrating to La Patagonia in order to establish a second Jewish State there.--200.55.64.195 21:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Proceso

There is a sentence that says "During the military dictatorships in Argentina (several periods between 1930 and 1983), extreme right-wing movements (Neo-Nazis, Neo-Fascist and so-called "nationalists") were free to publish and broadcast their ideas, whereas mainstream political parties were proscribed." I don't want to play devil's advocate, but this isn't true, many nazist books were censored during the last dictatorship. See here some of the specific decrees. MBelgrano (talk) 02:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

While I don't dispute the assertion, I do recall going to the Feria del Libro during the Proceso, and seeing openly anti-semitic books being on display. Also, during the Proceso, "Cabildo" magazine circulated openly and was sold in kiosks, whereas mainstream political media (e.g. Peronista, Radical, Desarrollista) were out-right censored, so they went underground. There were also radio programs where the Holocaust was denied, yet hailed as a good idea. All of this from personal recollection, which should be shared by many people who observed the Argentine landscape at those times (e.g. Herman Schiller). elpincha (talk) 03:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

That's a bit relative. Yes, there were some nazist books or magazines that were not banned, but... nazism and negacionism references have never been banned in Argentina the way they are in Europe. Not during the proceso, but neither before nor after. I suppose that's because neonazis have never been a noteworthy problem here, so nobody saw the need to forbid it. Not because there's anyone supporting it, but because nobody cares (at least, in the grand scheme of things, one or two nuts around there are not worth any notice, and common laws are enough to deal with them). Same as canibalism: no civilized country encourages it, but how many countries have actually specifically banned it? Cambalachero (talk) 20:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Even if I were to concede the point (which I am not), how is that germane to the discussion? I know my personal experience is not worth a lot on Wikipedia, but do some asking: pretty much everybody will tell you that during 1976-1981 it was way safer to say "Hitler was right" than "I miss Evita" or "We should have elections sometime". elpincha (talk) 11:38, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

You seem to want to see a pro-nazi bias in the lack of a nazi bann were there was none. No pro-nazi laws were enacted, no anti-nazi laws were derogated. The official position towards nazism was exactly the same than with Perón and Isabel and with Alfonsín, nothing had changed. See Hitler Ate Sugar, and replace "Hitler" with "Videla", to understand how wrong your reasoning is. Cambalachero (talk) 11:52, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

I give up. elpincha (talk) 12:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Various random comments

• This is an exceedingly poor article: badly written, inaccurate, misleading and poorly sourced.
• What is the source for the ICA (Jewish Colonization Association) project being called the "Andinia Plan"? I have a large literature on it and the word "Andinia" is not present.
• No actual history of the "Andinia Plan" conspiracy theory is presented, not even a mention of its origin.
• Some of the sources given are obscure and hard to identify.
• Given all this, I have grave doubts over this article's right to exist.

Zero^talk 13:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

fighting bullshit with bullshit

The facts about early Zionist plans have very little to do with present day conspiracy theories, but if the former is mentioned it should be at least correct. This part: "the idea was seriously considered as an alternative to Palestine by leading Zionists such as Theodore Herzl. However, these did not include plans for an independent Jewish state there, but for a local Jewish autonomy." is in direct contradiction to what Herzl wrote. Actually, in Der Judenstaat, he wrote that gradual immigration was useless without sovereignty. (Die Auswanderung hat folglich nur dann einen Sinn, wenn ihre Grundlage unsere gesicherte Souveränität ist.) Zero^talk 09:16, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

NPOV/imbalance

This page is currently defining proposals for a Jewish state in Argentina as conspiracy theory, based on the ADL, a lobby group, and the JCPA - an unreliable source. This is garbage sourcing, and it flies in the face of the extensive material confirming that Herzl seriously considered Argentina as a contender for the location of a Jewish state. This idea appeared in Theodor Herzl’s The Jewish State published in 1896. Argentina was identified as one of the options for the Zionist project, along with Palestine, due to the fertility of its lands and its small population at that time. [...] Herzl believed that, “The Argentine Republic would derive considerable benefit from the cession of a portion of its territory to us.” Iskandar323 (talk) 08:26, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

The worst areas of inaccuracy and unreliable sourcing in the lead have now been addressed. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2024 (UTC)