Talk:Albanian Orthodox Church

Title change

Can someone with the relevant rights change the title of this article from "Albanian Orthodox Church" to "Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Albania" and make the old title redirect here?

I just saw an interview of Anastasios on TV where he corrected the journalist (Anna Panagiotarea) who called the Church as "Albanian Orthodox Church" saying there is a difference and the Church should be called "Church of Albania" instead of "Albanian Church".

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:29, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 17 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Adumbrativus (talk) 06:07, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

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Orthodox Church of Albania → Albanian Orthodox Church – shorter, more natural and much more common in English (), and matching Bulgarian Orthodox Church, Polish Orthodox Church, Romanian Orthodox Church, Russian Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church, Georgian Orthodox Church. There are actually more pages that link to "Albanian Orthodox Church" than to the article's present title. 92.184.106.40 (talk) 11:12, 17 September 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 12:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Oppose: the current title is closer to the official name of the Church. Some E. O. churches use an adjective in their official name (Romanian Orthodox Church, Russian Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church), some do not (Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia, Orthodox Church in America, Orthodox Church of Ukraine). Moreover, the current difference in popularity in the names which you gave, while not important seems not to be very important when one looks at the more recent years. Veverve (talk) 11:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

The Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch and the Georgian Orthodox Church don't use the adjectives "Greek" and "Georgian" in their official names, yet this is how they are commonly known to English readers—not the Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East of the Orthodox Roum nor the Apostolic Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Georgia.

As for the AOC, the more common name for this church clearly is "Albanian Orthodox Church"; this name is even quoted from the sources of this article and this was the title of the article until you asked for it to be renamed as a "technical request" two years ago.

There is no reason why we should discard COMMONNAME when "Albanian Orthodox Church" is used throughout Wikipedia and by the majority of publications on the subject to this day, including a very recent one entirely about the Albanian Orthodox Church by native Albanian Professor Ardit Bido: . 92.184.105.216 (talk) 01:20, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support – this is clearly the common name, and it's perfectly precise, concise, and recognizable. It's also consistent with our usual practice (and indeed is the status quo for this very article). In light of that, there's no criteria-based argument against moving: concerns about the "official name of the Church" simply don't hold much sway from a policy perspective. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:20, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Christianity has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 12:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Albania has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 12:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Religion has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 12:29, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support I am happy that Albanian Orthodox Church is the common name (WP:COMMONNAME in English and therefore should be the page title. Dushan Jugum (talk) 02:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Paul the Apostle

Currently we have an unsourced claim (introduced repeatedly) that Paul the Apostle is the founder of this modern church simply because he preached Christianity in what is now Albania. This currently violates WP:V and WP:OR. Guxhuli, I would advise you to self-revert and not continue removing maintenance templates without a valid rationale. It is disruptive. There is also nothing about Paul the Apostle in the article, which also violates MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, because infoboxes summarize details from the article. If he is considered as a symbolic founder by the church, that could be mentioned in the article, but it needs a source. Either way, sources need to be cited. StephenMacky1 (talk) 18:56, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Paul the apostle was born on 5 AD, while the modern church was "founded" in 1937 to separate itself from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Do you understand what is meant by symbolically here or not? in the [[Albanian_Orthodox_Church#History]] section you have:

The Christian religious vocabulary of Albanian is mostly Latin, including even the basic terms such "to bless", "altar," and "to receive communion". It indicates that Albanians were Christianized under the Latin-based liturgy and ecclesiastical order which would be known as "Roman Catholic" in later centuries. Ecclesiastically, Christians in Albania, as part of the province of Illyricum, were under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome (2nd-8th century).

In that sense there is nothing to verify here, except that Paul the apostle brought Christianity to Albania. This is not a scientific article. Guxhuli (talk) 19:03, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be a "scientific" article. All articles on Wikipedia require sources. So far, I see nothing but your original research. I am not interested in your personal opinions. StephenMacky1 (talk) 19:07, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

No, it literally is not my original research. Paul the apostle brought Christianity to Albanians, so in that way he founded the church in Albania. You are aware we have old churches from Byzantine times there, right? Those were not founded by Fan Noli! Guxhuli (talk) 19:10, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Going by this logic, he can be considered a founder of any modern church there. Look, it is pretty simple. If there is no source that explicitly wrote that he was a founder, then he cannot be added. Good luck finding such a source. StephenMacky1 (talk) 22:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

The source is literally the Albanian Church itself, which believes that! Who are you to say otherwise? I don't understand? I see you are from North Macedonia. I am now clearly convinced you have an agenda here, namely a balkan nationalist one! Guxhuli (talk) 22:57, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Please refrain from making WP:ASPERSIONS, especially when you have no valid arguments. That same argument was used by the IP. Even the church does not say that he was a founder, just that he preached in the area of the present-day country, which is not disputed. StephenMacky1 (talk) 23:02, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

You are the only one who rejects any sort of valid sources here, and you can't make decisions according to your wishes.

The Church is clearly quoted:

In the light of the verse that follows -“Yea, so have I striven to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation” (Rom 15:20) – we would be justified in supposing that it was the Apostle Paul, either in person or through his close associates, who first planted the seeds of the Gospel in this geographical region of Albania. That he was at Nikopoli, slightly south of present-day Albania, is incontestable (Titus 3:12). So too is the missionary work of his close associate Titus in Dalmatia, a little to the north of present-day Albania (II Timothy 4:10). According to an early tradition the Apostle to this region was named Qesari (Kaisar), one of seventy Apostles; and another [source] reconciled the two versions by having Paul elect Qesar (Kaisar) as first Bishop of Dyrrachion (Durrës).Guxhuli (talk) 23:05, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

I have explained everything based on policies and guidelines, but you choose to ignore them. That is not my problem. Even if the church did explicitly confirm what you claim, it is still a primary source. On Wikipedia, we rely mostly on secondary sources. So, what you are doing currently is original research based on your interpretation of the primary source. StephenMacky1 (talk) 23:09, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

I am not ignoring anything. You requested an source and I gave them. What do you mean on wikipedia we rely mostly on secondary sources?? Where is that rule stated? This is neither my orignial research nor my intepretation of it. That is an official source from the Albanian Orthodox Church! That is their interpretation! And this page is for them after all! Guxhuli (talk) 23:12, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Check WP:PSTS. I would recommend you to learn the policies and guidelines. If you are serious about editing here again, that is what I would recommend you to do. StephenMacky1 (talk) 23:41, 6 May 2025 (UTC)