Talk:Aeneid

Full version of the book

Is there a link to the full version of the Aeneid on some site like the Gutenburg Project that could be added here? -- User:82.32.96.44

Note the line in the article

For external links to text of the Aeneid see Virgil.

The Virgil article contains links to all Virgil's works. -- Derek Ross | Talk

Why is there no section on the manuscript history of the Aeneid?

This is one of the most important texts in the Middle Ages, from a literary and technical perspective. Hundreds of copies of the Aeneid circulate from both aged scholars and young schoolboys learning to write in Latin. Where did these manuscripts originate? How did Virgil write this text, and how did it manage to be known over the years given that only a few copies from Antiquity survive (none of which appear to be spoken of in the Wiki)? Some of the ancient manuscripts, like the Vergilius Vaticanus -- which has its own Wiki page -- are fully digitized, but it's not even mentioned in the references section here. It just seems like a pretty big oversight to not talk about how this story was physically recorded. 160.32.64.133 (talk) 13:05, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

Did Dido and Aeneas have sex in the cave in Book 4?

I noticed a recent change removing the claim that Dido and Aeneas had sex in the cave, lines 165-172 of book 4. User Squawk9889 (who made the edit) said there was no evidence, but I wonder if there's room for nuance. I personally think it's pretty clear something other than marriage happened in that cave, and of course that's an interpretation, but it could at least be mentioned. Here's my literal translation for you to see for yourself:

"Dido and the Trojan leader arrive at the same cave. Both First Earth and Juno, matron of honor, give a sign; the flames and heaven, witness for the marriage, shine, and Nymphs howled on the highest peak. That day was the first cause of death and the first of evils; and for Dido is not moved by appearances or her reputation, nor now does she meditate on a secret love: she calls it marriage, she cloaked her fault with this name." (bold text: coniugium vocat, hoc praetexit nomine culpam)

Some translations translate it more explicitly, like this free online one: https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/VirgilAeneidIV.php#anchor_Toc342020 "she no longer thinks of a secret affair: she calls it marriage, and with that name disguises her sin." This seems like a reasonable translation to me. Remember, Dido is still loyal towards her husband, who was killed in Tyre. What else would she be "cloaking with marriage" other than sex? The other important piece is that Dido and Aeneas likely aren't aware of all these marriage rites happening around them (this is Juno's somewhat secret plan).

I have not edited much Wikipedia at all, so I'd love to here a more experienced editor's take on this. Imporcitor (talk) 05:40, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

I should add: I'm pretty sure that Roman weddings typically involved consummation: see Weddings in ancient Rome#Wedding couch and banquet Imporcitor (talk) 05:45, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply @Imporcitor: because I think it's an interesting point.

I removed the reference because I think that there is insufficient evidence in the text to make the claim that Aeneas and Dido had sex within the cave. The purpose of that section (as I interpret it) is to recount only the definite facts of the text, and that interpretations are unsuitable. I'm on my phone right now so I'm not finding references in Wikipedia policies and guides for why I think that but I think it's a fairly agreeable claim based on the vibe of Wikipedia.

The matter then becomes whether the claim that Aeneas and Dido had sex (specifically in the cave, I agree that it's fairly objective that Dido and Aeneas at some point consummated their "marriage", although in my opinion that probably occurred afterwards per "nunc hiemem inter se luxu quam longa fovere regnorum immemores turpique cupidine captos"). The weddings featuring consummation may be more compelling (haven't looked into this yet), although still perhaps a bit of an interpretation? As far as I can tell the passage within the cave is entirely mentioning elements of the mock marriage ceremony from Juno and Venus. I believe the rumour spread by Fama probably originates from Dido now openly claiming to be married to Aeneas, and then her neglecting her kingdom (there is a parallel between regnorum immemores and the part about the young men not practicing their arms and the cranes hanging level with the sky). So no definite reason to say that the scandalous rumour is of Dido and Aeneas having sex.

Hopefully that explains why I think it lies more on the side of interpretation than translation or factual synopsis.

If in academic interpretations of the text it's universally accepted that the marriage was consummated within the cave I would find that acceptable proof to re-introduce the claim in the article, and perhaps that should be referenced with the claim to clarify. Squawk9889 (talk) 06:21, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

This makes sense, thank you! Through that lens I definitely agree with your edit, better to keep it objective on Wikipedia. Now I'm invested though; this is an interesting topic, so maybe I'll look for some scholarly interpretations. Imporcitor (talk) 06:29, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

We have to go by what sources actually say; we as editors can interpret wording found in sources in order to not plagiarize the source, but not the meaning of the words themselves. If something seems implied, then we need to find a reliable source that explicitly presents an interpretation that characterizes it as an implication (I realize that's a seriously stilted construction). cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 06:22, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Plenty of commentators make that subtext text, and explicitly call the episode a sexual encounter:

• Ingo Gildenhard in this school edition, p. 162ff
• John Bernard here, p. 131
• Sarah Spence here, p. 81
• Lee Fratantuono and R. Alden Smith here, p. 271. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:44, 2 December 2025 (UTC)