Talk:AFAB queen
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Michelle Visage
[edit]Rename article to Female Queen
[edit]Faux queen is generally outdated and widely considered offensive. "Female queen" or "female drag queen" is more commonly seen in news articles, reference books and in use by performers. While "faux queen" needs to redirect here (as it's used in some older pageants and in historical literature), this article should be titled with a more common term.
The article had also not been updated in over a decade; I added information on the more recent news around AFAB/female queens in media and a section on discrimination within the community. --PropterScientiam (talk) 01:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PropterScientiam (talk • contribs) 01:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Some initial searches suggest that this is not supported by the majority of sources, but I'll have to look more in detail later. Mathglot (talk)
- In most of the cited articles, the terms "bioqueen," "female queen" or "cisgender female drag queen" is used. This old edit also contradicts the current article "drag queen" which also states that faux queen is considered offensive. --PropterScientiam (talk) 14:47, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
This is still not addressed. Evidence for faux queen being offensive:
https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/female-drag-queen-real-life-story
This is a marginalized group being referred to by an outdated and widely offensive term and NEEDS to be corrected ASAP as there are currently several high profile AFAB/female queens in the news.
PropterScientiam (talk) 13:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
"AFAB" is inappropriate and transphobic in this context
[edit]The article is full of the phrase "assigned female at birth", but that term includes trans men who are drag queens. But trans men performing as drag queens are not "faux queens", "female queens", nor "female female impersonators". They are men performing as women, i.e. male drag queens (who were also assigned female at birth - "AFAB" describes a past, not present state).
The term is completely out of place and makes the transphobic implication that trans people should be viewed as their assigned sex in drag context, which is even contradicted in the introduction itself, so I'm surprised nobody noticed yet. 2A00:1398:9:FB03:A52A:CD80:ACCA:A0F7 (talk) 13:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- "AFAB drag queen" is the term used by trans men, cis women and nonbinary people who perform as drag queens. It is used because all 3 groups face the same challenges and discrimination within the community on the basis of their assigned sex at birth. The only reason to distinguish a drag queen according to their out of drag gender is to discuss discrimination against their gender or representation of it within drag, and discrimination against women queens (mostly trans women) is different than discrimination against AFAB queens.
- Gottmik, for example, faces the same pushback and discrimination as Victoria Scone, despite Gottmik being a trans man, while Sasha Colby, a trans woman, does not.
- In discussing a group discriminated against based on assigned sex at birth, it is appropriate to reference their assigned sex. PropterScientiam (talk) 04:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
- I agree, because drag queens like Gottmik are men who were assigned female at birth. I can look into more inclusive definitions. BeaniLibrarian (talk) 00:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
"born a female"
[edit]This terminology, in my opinion, is inappropriate for the context of the article. While I don't necessarily agree that the term "AFAB queen" is fully inclusive to the transgender community, I would like to make a note that some of those assigned female at birth may not necessarily resonate with "born a female." I also believe that specifying "assigned female at birth" rather than "born a female" is more consistent in regards to the title of the article. BeaniLibrarian (talk) 00:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)