Module talk:SST

Fine 1994

Can we fix FINE_THE_LATE_MEDIEVAL_BALKANS somehow to note the person's name properly, per the article John V. A. Fine Jr.? --Joy (talk) 20:41, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

This is what currently is in the code: ['first'] = "John V. A. Jr.",. What exactly do you want it to be changed to? Gonnym (talk) 14:24, 6 June 2026 (UTC)

So the article is at John Van Antwerp Fine Jr. Is there a reason for the citation to be contracted? --Joy (talk) 14:57, 6 June 2026 (UTC)

Joy, I believe the correct options are either:

• Fine, John V. A., Jr. (1994) [1987].
• John V. A. Fine Jr. (1994) [1987].

I changed this:

['first'] = "John V. A. Jr." to this ['first'] = "John V. A., Jr."

Unless you mean spell out the full name? -- GreenC 23:32, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

but ...

{{cite book |last=Fine |first=John V. A., Jr. |title=The Late Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Late Twelfth Century to the Ottoman Conquest}}

Fine, John V. A., Jr. The Late Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Late Twelfth Century to the Ottoman Conquest.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

This example causes Module:Citation/CS1 to emit a CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list message because commas make no sense in given names (cs1|2 thinks that is an indicator of multiple author names) and because MOS:JR says:

Do not put a comma before Jr., Sr. ...

Your change should be undone.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:23, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, it's confusing. The article title spells it out. If it's just initialed, it sounds like two middle names, but Van Antwerp sounds like a surname instead.

To make things even more confusing, his father got an article recently and the editor started it at the contracted form, and it's now at John V. A. Fine (1903–1987).

Maybe we should just check what's the most common usage in sources specifically referring to these people's names. --Joy (talk) 07:29, 8 June 2026 (UTC)