Help talk:IPA/Russian
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ɵ English approximations are wrong
[edit]Neither of vowels "ɵ" (stressed/unstressed) do sound remotely similar to "foot" (which is purely "u"). 78.84.117.99 (talk) 20:51, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
- See . Nardog (talk) 04:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, maybe I didn't point out. My grievance is with sounds in words "ма́чо" and "сёрфинги́ст". The "foot" example should be swapped to something like "goat". See Close-mid central rounded vowel.
- The "foot" example would only makes sense for IPA "ʊ". 78.84.117.99 (talk) 11:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- I changed "foot" to "choice". "Foot" made absolutely no sense here. There may be some obscure dialect, where it pronounced as a close-mid central rounded vowel, but that is not helpful in this situation. IvanTheRussian (talk) 15:00, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
Wrong English Approximation for [r]?
[edit]The English approximation used for [r] (a voiced alveolar trill) here, "American atom", is typically the example for [ɾ] (a voiced alveolar tap/flap) on other IPA pages as I've noticed, and is not the correct example for a trilled r. 71.50.52.242 (talk) 00:23, 23 October 2025 (UTC)
- You are free to provide a better approximation. Tacit Murky (talk) 04:27, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
- Russian phonology says /rʲ/ is "usually with only a single contact", so at least catty is appropriate (although single-contact trills and taps/flaps are not exactly the same articulatorily, they sound pretty much the same). I wouldn't be surprised if /r/ too was often realized with a single contact, as this is cross-linguistically common. Nardog (talk) 15:34, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
- Gotcha! Makes sense to me :]. Thank you for the explanation! 71.50.52.242 (talk) 17:49, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
Retroflexes
[edit]“Manche Autor*innen nehmen mit Hamann (2002) und Żygis (2003) an, dass in einigen slavischen Sprachen (z. B. im Russischen und Polnischen, aber z. B. nicht im Tschechischen) die ›harten‹ Zischlaute [ʃ], [ʒ], [t͡ʃ] und [d͡ʒ] (soweit vorhanden) in Wirklichkeit Retroflexe seien und somit als [ʂ], [ʐ], [ʈ͡ʂ] und [ɖ͡ʐ] zu transkribieren seien. Zwar ist diese Transkription inzwischen auch in der Wikipedia anzutreffen, aber die Argumente für slavische Retroflexe sind nicht überzeugend. Diese Laute klingen zwar tatsächlich etwas dunkler als z. B. [ʃ] im Deutschen oder Englischen, das ist aber auf Velarisierung und eventuell eine leicht nach hinten verschobene Artikulation zurückzuführen. Zurückgebogen wird die Zunge definitiv nicht.” (Daniel Bunčić, Barbara Sonnenhauser, Anastasia Bauer, Tobias-Alexander Herrmann: Einführung in die Linguistik der slavischen Sprachen (Textbooks in Language Sciences 999). Berlin: Language Science Press, 2025;. p. 240), my emphasis.
Just sayin’. Babel fish (talk) 20:05, 29 December 2025 (UTC)
- I think this is more appropriate for Talk:Russian phonology. Whatever is decided there can be applied to the guide. Sol505000 (talk) 11:14, 31 December 2025 (UTC)
Allophones
[edit]Should be add allophones of consonants to this page? Vowel allophones were added, but I am not sure about such sounds like [ɱ] (м before the labiodentals), [r̥] (р at the end of the word, or if it is before a voiceless consonant), [ʋ] (в between vowels, in fast speech and in some other contexts) et cetera? MiroCavga (talk) 15:46, 18 May 2026 (UTC)