Template talk:Infobox basketball biography

Multiple nationalities and MOS:SLASH

Hi folks. Editing Barry Mitchell (basketball), I noticed that this infobox separates multiple nationalities with a slash, in violation of MOS:SLASH. This should be changed to separate them by a comma. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 11:01, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

There are issues with Nationality in this infobox with respect to WP:INFONAT which no one has ever put forth a real solution for, We should discuss this for cases where the field is used. But I believe you are interpreting WP:MOSSLASH too broadly, and have seen it with edits from you to the “career_position” field with newly-deceased figures. WP:MOSSLASH states “Generally, avoid joining two words with a slash (a.k.a. forward slash, stroke, or solidus), because it suggests that the words are related without specifying how.” Well, infobox fields like position and nationality are not unclear at all. If a field shows “forward / center,” and is marked “position” then it clearly indicated that the two words are related because they are both positions the athlete played. A “nationality” field that shows “American / Chinese” is similarly obvious. MOS:SLASH reads like a guideline that is mainly focused on how this punctuation is used in prose, and I agree slashes should hardly ever if at all show up in prose. But infobox fields are another matter and the field labels generally addess the concern of the guideline. Rikster2 (talk) 11:47, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

You're making an effort to reason why the slash could be acceptable in these situations. But I have yet to hear a reason why the slash would be preferable over a comma and why that would outweigh the benefit of consistency of generally "avoid[ing] joining two words with a slash". MOS:SLASH clearly lists exceptions to the rule and what you are asking for is not such an exception. So if someone is misinterpreting the guideline, it is you. Robby.is.on (talk) 12:04, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

Because for position, it is an incredibly common way to show dual position for athletes (one example) and it makes no sense to essentially “ban” something that is common usage for similar forms in the “real world” in favor off an internally-developed rule that seems to be trying to clean up prose specifically (from its wording). Total consistency of a punctuation mark is not required. there is context for how these are used. For nationality, there are bigger issues - as stated in the first discussion on this page. Those should be cleared up but to me using a slash is the least of our worries. Rikster2 (talk) 12:11, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

it makes no sense to essentially “ban” something that is common usage for similar forms in the “real world” in favor off an internally-developed rule That argument is invalid. Wikipedia's MoS does strive for internal consistency, proscribing "#1" in favour of "number one" and "No. 1" in MOS:NUMBERSIGN even though we find both outside of Wikipedia, proscribing curly apostrophes in favour of straight apostrophes in MOS:APOSTROPHE even though we find both outside of Wikipedia, prescribing logical quotation in MOS:LQ etc. etc. Robby.is.on (talk) 12:44, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

Well, what have the writers of MOS:SLASH based the policy on (there are no footnotes) and why does it not directly address infoboxes directly? It starts with the word “generally,” which indicates that the ARE acceptable uses, not a blanket ban Rikster2 (talk) 12:47, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

why does it not directly address infoboxes directly? Because the guideline is to be applied "generally", not limited to certain parts of an article. It starts with the word “generally,” which indicates that the ARE acceptable uses, not a blanket ban. The guideline then proceeds to list exceptions and those exceptions do not include the cutouts you are looking for. Robby.is.on (talk) 12:51, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

A guideline can’t list every possible exception. And the entire guideline, including the justification for why it exists, reads as if we are discussing cases of prose. Infoboxes are not addressed at all. I think reasonable people would agree you should very rarely if ever use slashes in prose. For example, I would not say someone is a “forward/center” in prose, I would say “he played the forward and center positions.” But in infoboxes, where space is at a premium, we use a common abbreviation (as well as WP:COMMONSENSE). Rikster2 (talk) 15:11, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

But in infoboxes, where space is at a premium, we use a common abbreviation. Commas are arguably at least as common as slashes – both on Wikipedia and outside of it – and certainly less ambiguous while there is no conceivable advantage of using slashes over commas in this context. Robby.is.on (talk) 17:44, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

buddy, the comma is rarely used in this situation (basketball player profiles where space is at a premium, etc) in real life. Why on earth would Wikipedia mandate something like that just to have a slavish adherence to a guideline that clearly is written about prose? There is no ambiguity in this usage of the slash. Not sure why you would even bring that up. Rikster2 (talk) 18:08, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

High school and college

How should high school parameter be displayed. Should it be "<high school>linebreak(<city>)", "<high school> (<city>)", or something else?

For college, with NIL and the transfer portal, players have been playing in multiple colleges. Are people open to the idea to of having collegeteamx, collegeyearsx as if those are professional clubs/teams? Howard the Duck (talk) 13:42, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

Checked the first five transclusions, it was a 50/50 split between the two high school display options. Having a line break probably makes more sense from a width perspective, though. As far as colleges go, I think it would be easy enough to just list them in the single parameter rather than have to code up multiple params. Primefac (talk) 14:56, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

Request for comment: should executive careers parameters be added to this infobox template?

Hello, there are former long-term basketball players and coaches who later in their basketball careers became high-ranking NBA executives (e.g. Jerry West, Pat Riley, Danny Ainge, Joe Dumars, Sean Marks, Larry Bird, Artūras Karnišovas, Elgin Baylor, etc.), however currently this infobox template do not have parameters to describe their careers periods as executives. Consequently, I suggest to add new parameters to this infobox template about executive careers (e.g. |eyears1=X–X |eteam1=X etc.). Since this RfC may attract a large number of participants and may affect many articles, I ask to start your statements by expressing whether you support or oppose the suggestion to include executive careers parameters to this infobox template and this way hopefully a clear WP:CONS will be reached about this suggestion. Thank you. -- Pofka (talk) 20:23, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

• Support as an initiator. I think that this template infoboxes in articles of basketball personalities like Jerry West, Pat Riley, and others should include parameters describing their career periods as executives, not only as players and coaches. The exact executive positions (e.g. general manager, president, etc.) in the infobox could be described in brackets after teams names. In my opinion, currently this is an essential flaw of this template and this issue should be fixed. -- Pofka (talk) 20:39, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
• Procedural question: @Pofka: Can you please indicate the WP:RFCBEFORE discussions that have been previously attempted for dispute resolution on this matter? If there are none, this doesn't warrant a formal RfC, and can just be a normal discussion. Left guide (talk) 21:19, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

  I believe there was already rough consensus to support at Template talk:Infobox basketball biography/Archive 3 § Request: Include general manager or front office parameters / template data, but there was an action item of Can somebody mock up a couple of navboxes with this parameter - any "worst cases" out there where someone has been a player/coach/exec with a lot of teams so we can see what the impact would be?, which the current proposal doesn't address. —Bagumba (talk) 22:13, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

  @Bagumba: Thanks for pointing this one out.

  @Left guide: I double-checked and I found that there also were these similar discussions in addition to user Bagumba's mentioned weak consensus from 2017:

  1) Template talk:Infobox basketball biography/Archive 3#Executive/Administration section in Career History started on 22 December 2021 by user Flowerkiller1692, but it attracted only one additional participant (Bagumba);

  2) Template talk:Infobox basketball biography/Archive 3#Executive started on 2 August 2018 by user Howard the Duck which ended up being a discussion of only two users;

  3) Template_talk:Infobox basketball biography/Archive 2#GM/Executive tenure a short discussion started on 16 February 2015 where user Bagumba said that there was a discussion at WikiProject Basketball talk page in 2013 in which no consensus was reached to include general manager parameters (see: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball/Archive 4#General manager's infobox, but it was 13 years ago without a clear voting and more and more former players/coaches become executives and this trend will surely continue in the future).

  So I think that eventually we should reach a strong consensus about this matter using a RfC procedure to attract more users than earlier. -- Pofka (talk) 16:19, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

  There's quite a few outstanding issues raised in those past discussions. Failing to workshop them is likely to just stall this topic again. There's been rough support in the past, it's just a matter of someone leading the discussion on the specific logistics of "how?", with some mock-ups. —Bagumba (talk) 16:42, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

  @Bagumba: I think the specific executive positions (e.g. president, general manager) can be described in brackets after teams names like in article Marc Eversley, however a separation "Executive" in the same style as "Playing", "Coaching" like in article Pat Riley would be beneficial. Head coaches and assistant coaches are already separated by including "(assistant)" in this template infoboxes (e.g. see in article Jason Kidd). So for a start I think we need new parameters |eyears1 = X–X ; |eteam1 = X, etc. By the way, I think what is really important this time for this discussion to succeed is to focus whether such new parameters are necessary and to avoid like HERE diving deeper into what executive positions are notable enough for inclusion in the infobox because this can be decided later and in individual articles. -- Pofka (talk) 16:56, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

• Support I think there are some individuals whose work as executives is as significant, and in some cases more significant, than other parts of their career. For general managers like Bob Myers or Rob Pelinka, their infobox contains information about their college playing career that is far less noteworthy than their work as executives. It’s almost misleading to summarize their information without noting their time as an executive. --E bailey (talk) 23:35, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
• Support. We could use {{Infobox gridiron football biography}}, which has seperate headers for playing, coaching, and executives, as the inspiration. — Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:19, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

  What's the distinction there between "Operations" and "Administration"? There's no guidance in the documentation. —Bagumba (talk) 19:31, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

  Don't quote me but I think "Operations" is for team presidents and "Administration" is for general managers and scouts. The difference seems negligible though. I wouldn't bat an eye if I saw a team president listed under "Administration". Aren't coaches technically part of the team's operations too? I'd support just having "Playing", "Coaching", and "Administration" headings on the gridiron infobox. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:46, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

  Actually, I take that back. It looks like the gridiron infobox is already set up to only show "Playing", "Coaching", and "Operations". "Administration" just redirects to Operations. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:56, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

  Administration currently only exists for articles that happen to use both, otherwise both parameters display Operations as intended (which includes low-level staff/executive/administrative roles). If we can fix all of those articles to just use pastexec, then it can be removed/made as a legacy fallback. @Bagumba: you know how to make that special search that lists all articles that have both parameters used right? I'll fix them all since I don't believe there are too many like that as the majority use one or the other. — Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:40, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

  I went ahead and fixed them all myself. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:06, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

I can support if tight parameters are defined for what is (and is not) included. Being a GM or president is notable. Being a scout or having a nebulous “community liaison” title - well, that infobox can get pretty bloated. Rikster2 (talk) 23:11, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

Also TBD are consultant roles like Jerry West's with GS and LAC. For example, Basketball Reference doesnt list them, nor his early consultant years before 1982 with LAL. What about Magic Johnson's stint as minority owner of the Lakers?—Bagumba (talk) 23:55, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

@Rikster2: @Bagumba: Scout is not an executive, so should not be included in the infobox. I think that the existing Template:NBA general managers perfectly summarize what should be included in the infobox as "Executive": "Note: Those listed here hold one or more of the titles President, President of Basketball Operations, Vice President of Basketball Operations, Chief Executive Officer, or General Manager and in each case have final say in personnel decisions". I suggest to pick this list for a start here to avoid deep discussions about other positions notability. Moreover, I think that top-class positions in the national teams like Grant Hill's managing director of the USA Men's National Team should be also included, but these positions probably can be called differently in different national teams, so deciding for a specific list could be very difficult. I think owner is not an executive, unless he hold a position like president, so I think that owners should not be automatically included as executives in the infobox. -- Pofka (talk) 17:12, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

We need to clearly define what does and does not go in that section is all I am saying. And it should be in the template documentation so that when drive-bys inevitably start adding extraneous stuff we can point them to the standard. Rikster2 (talk) 22:09, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

@Rikster2: What do you think about positions list provided in my suggestion #1 below? If you will be replying to this message, I think it would be better to comment in my suggestion #1 section below and then continue discussion about it there. -- Pofka (talk) 15:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

If missed above, the football infobox uses "Operations" as a way to group all non-playing/coaching roles, including scouts, front office personnel, and team administrators. Owners should probably just use the normal {{Infobox person}} like Josh Harris since they usually have other businesses they manage. — Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:44, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Suggestion #1 for executive careers parameters implementation in the template

Alright, it seems like the main discussion is going in a direction that executives parameters should be added to the infobox template, but the main question remain how. So here is my suggestion:

• Add new parameters |eyears1 = X–X ; |eteam1 = X, etc.
• For a start only these notable executive positions should be added to articles infoboxes which use this template:
  • National Basketball Association teams: President, President of Basketball Operations, Vice President of Basketball Operations, Chief Executive Officer, and General Manager (per Template:NBA general managers).
  • Other leagues like EuroLeague and smaller national leagues teams: President, Vice President, General Manager.
  • National basketball federations: President, Chair, Secretary General (FIBA in its list of national federations only include these notable figures and press contact, see individual countries examples: United States, France, Spain, Lithuania). United States use position "Chair" instead of "President". Former basketball player Elisa Aguilar currently is a President of Spanish Basketball Federation, so in her case such new executive career parameters are necessary.
  • In the initial implementation stage I suggest to only include executive positions of professional clubs and national federations level, so at this point no college/universities executives positions. There even is a separate Template:Infobox college coach (e.g. used in article Mike Krzyzewski), so college/universities sphere seems to be too complicated and requires more extensive discussions.
  • Team ownership should not be listed as executive career in the infobox (e.g. Michael Jordan ownership of Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets). Team owner career should be listed as executive in the infobox only when a team owner serve/served in notable positions mentioned above.
  • A strong consensus must be reached at Template talk:Infobox basketball biography to include other executive positions as a measure to prevent infoboxes in articles becoming too bloated.
• Executive positions in the infoboxes should be described in brackets after teams/countries names. E.g. Los Angeles Lakers (President), United States (Secretary General).
• Executive career in the infoboxes should be separated with a bold text "Executive" like "Playing", "Coaching". E.g. see Pat Riley infobox for "Playing", "Coaching" careers separation.

I think this could be a good start for the first stage of implementation of these very necessary executive careers parameters in this template. What others think? -- Pofka (talk) 19:27, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Removed Nationality field

I removed the Nationality field since it is not used an the vast majority of articles (where the country in birthplace matches) and also is in conflict with WP:INFONAT. Nationality/citizenship/FIBA eligibility can be discussed in the prose and frankly that is a better place to do it with the more complex cases where the field was actually used. Rikster2 (talk) 13:29, 26 June 2026 (UTC)

For reference, discussion was at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball § Recommendation - Remove "Nationality" field from Template:Infobox basketball biography —Bagumba (talk) 00:30, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

National team revisited

With the removal of the nationality field, I think it would be apt to revisit adding a national team field. The other sports does this. Partly why the nationality field was there was to infer about national team eligibility and how nationality itself was infered from the birthplace (despite not all countries not having jus soli citizenship rules)

Besides, like clubs its either you have played for a national team or not. Its rather straightforward rather than trying to do WP:OR speculation on nationality based on birthplace, parent citizenship, legal citizenship acquisition after a naturalization process, which lets be honest often slips in. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:50, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

Unlike soccer, top basketball leagues don't schedule around national team schedules, so a lot of lesser players are sent to qualifiers. —Bagumba (talk) 06:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

It doesn't really answer the question, most footballers in top domestic league don't get called up to the national team either but they do have the field for players who do play in the national team. The current basketball infobox do already have a medal box support. I am at a lost on why we cannot include it especially for players who haven't medal but do have documented appearance for their national teams.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 10:12, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

I am not opposed to the concept, but am not in favor of something taking up too much infobox space. The way football does it (see Harry Kane for a single-country example and Declan Rice for a dual country example) is too many lines of “real estate.” The various levels and such are best described in the text, but maybe just a single field that shows the one or two values? Rikster2 (talk) 11:30, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

Or alternatively, we could just list the (senior) national team? Somewhere under career information like we already do for high school? Something to consider. FIBA generally have stricter national team eligibility rules so I don't think your average player will need five to six entries. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 05:49, 29 June 2026 (UTC)