File talk:AmandaStepto1989.png

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of a fair use image as a replaceable image. Please do not modify it.

The result was to delete the image. ✗plicit 00:00, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use disputed

I'm not sure I agree with the uploader reasoning for disputing the claim that this file is replaceable non-free use. Lots of actors are associated with a particular role and in some cases how they appeared in character, but it's their career as an actor, not their appearance, by which their Wikipedia notability is assessed per WP:NACTOR. Even if Stepto's character "Spike" didn't have spiked hair, Stepto would still almost be Wikipedia notable because of the significance in the role in Degrassi franchise. There is already a non-free image of Stepto in character being used in the "Spike" article; so, there's really no need for another one to be used to show how she looked in character, and there's no need for that particular non-free one to be used in the BLP about Stepto per item 6 of WP:NFC#UUI and WP:FREER since a Wikilink to the article about the character is sufficient.

As for whether Stepto had spiked hair in real life and whether it helped her get the part of "Spike", that's not really something that requires the reader see a non-free image to be understood. The physical appearance of an actor probably varies quite a bit throughout their lives just like it does with most people; so, there's nothing truly significant or remarkable about that. That she was a punk-rock fan at some point in her life and thus had spiked hair is also nothing that requires that a non-free image of her with spiked her be seen to be understood, anymore than if she had dyed her hair to blond or some other color, unless there's quite a lot of sourced critical commentary specifically related to her choice of hairstyle in reliable WP:SECONDARY sources which specifically state that her hairstyle is basically why she's Wikipedia notable. In some cases, an actor brings some part of their real self to the roles they play, but perhaps there are cases where the some parts of a role an actor plays affects how they look and act in real life. If you Google for images of Stepto you do find some of her with spiked hair and straight hair, and even some with different colored hair. These images span a number of years, but they sort of show that "spiked" hair isn't something that Stepto has turned into some type of personal branding. There are also images from around the same time period that this non-free one was taken showing different degrees of spiking or blondness, and some in which her hair appears more wavy than spiked; so, trying to argue that this particular non-free one is representative of how she looks (or looked) doesn't seem to be a very convincing one. Pretty much every actor is remembered as they appeared in perhaps their most famous role by many of their fans, but that doesn't necessarily make actors Wikipedia notable for their appearance.

There are also some "technical" issues with the non-free rationale itself provided for this image. First, the file's use is not being limited to the "Reception and impact", but rather it's being used for primary identification purposes in the main infobox of the article. Perhaps there was once a ""Reception and impact" section in the BLP article, but its seem highly unlikely that this file would meet WP:NFC#CS or WP:FREER even if there was. There's no reason to see a non-free image simply "To explain how the actress would be approached for advice about the issues her character faced." as the non-free rationale is claiming.

Finally, there is a freely-licensed image of Stepto (File:Amanda Stepto 08.jpg) that was replaced in the main infobox by this non-free one; so, there is already a free image of here that could be used instead. If that image is considered too old or not of a good enough quality, then WP:PERMISSIONs is always a possibility and Stepto or her representatives could be asked to provide a more current image. There might also be some more recent images of her posted by someone on social media somewhere since she does seem to have appeared at some public events since her Degrassi years. If she's still performing as DJ, then someone could take a photo of her at one of her shows. The fact that she's still living means, for the most part, that a newer free equivalent image is not unreasonable to expect even if it can't be created asap; this means that any non-free image of her (past or present) is going to be really hard to justify per WP:FREER. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: - I didn't know there was an entire response to my dispute. You should have pinged me! I actually agree with you and will not dispute back. I am not overly familiar with Wikipedia's image rules. I have a habit of thinking before doing a lot of the time. As for "To explain how the actress would be approached for advice about the issues her character faced.", that was because the article was originally intended for the character Christine Nelson, which is the character she played. That article has a "Reception and impact" section that originally included the image of Stepto.

The whole point was because it was a photo of her being interviewed on a radio station, it would demonstrate how she would often be asked for advice in the real world. Of course, I see how pointless it is, but I thought it'd be a nice touch. (Key phrase, I thought). When I put the image in the infobox, I forgot to change why it was being used.

My reason for replacing the (what I didn't know was a) free image was because it was cropped from an ensemble photo that was not at an ideal resolution to be cropped. This is also evident on Stacie Mistysyn, whose portrait was cropped from the same photo, and is of poor quality and too small to fit in the infobox. If the person who originally took the photo still has the original file, or the original RAW, then I can try and contact him to see if he can update the resolution of the file on here.

The photo currently on the infobox used to be both in the Biography section of Amanda Stepto and in the Reception and impact section of Christine Nelson. After User:Bilorv gave me some advice, I removed it from Christine Nelson, but I was preoccupied with expanding Degrassi Junior High, so I didn't really think about the potential of a dispute such as this. I honestly don't mind much if the image is deleted at this point, but I'd still prefer a better image for both Amanda Stepto and Stacie Mistysyn.

As for WP:PERMISSION, I've recently contacted the University of Toronto Media Archives, who forwarded me to request permission from WildBrain (the parent company of Degrassi) for the use of publicity photographs under a license of Joey Jeremiah, Caitlin Ryan and Christine Nelson in place of non-free television screenshots. ToQ100gou (talk) 13:18, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree that the image is not right for the page Amanda Stepto—the advice I gave for Christine Nelson (at Special:Diff/1016485328) similarly applies here. The free image we have is not great but it's preferable to nothing, and the UoT contact is a great line to pursue. Sometimes we just have to sit with undesirable images or even no image at all: for instance, I found this was the case at Asim Chaudhry (which I got to GA). Couldn't find a free image and contacting Chaudhry's agent was to no avail. Frustrating but I just had to let my efforts draw to a close, and maybe one day there'll be a free image available. — Bilorv (talk) 16:03, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.