Template talk:Setup auto archiving

Defaults to no archive box?

Why does the template not add {{Archives}} by default? Wouldn't that be far easier for the intended new users?

I fully understand why {{Talk header}} isn't enabled by default (for many reasons, not least the considerable probability that a talk header is already present).

But this leaves us with two common outcomes:

1. The new user adds this and an existing Talk header picks up the created archive(s) automatically. All is well.
2. The new user adds this and... there is no trace of any archives anywhere. The new user must understand they must manually add either {{Talk header}} or {{Archives}} or one of the more obscure alternatives.

Isn't outcome 2 decidedly bad?

Compare to what would happen if {{Archives}} was enabled by default:

1. The new user adds this and the new Archives picks up the created archive(s) automatically. All is well.
2. The new user adds this and... ends up with both a Talk header and an Archives. While the redundancy isn't ideal, nothing breaks, and the archives are easy to find. A more experienced user will likely come along and simply remove the Archives or set {{Talk header|noarchive=yes|search=no}}

None of these outcomes seem nearly as frustrating. CapnZapp (talk) 18:34, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

Please change the default of the |archives= parameter from |archives=no to |archives=yes. See § Defaults to no archive box? for preceding discussion.

PS. The protection level isn't the reason I'm making this edit request. This request simply needs someone proficient in template coding, i.e. not me. DS.

Thanks CapnZapp (talk) 14:58, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

 Done, though if anyone objects to this change please revert the changes to the template and documentation. – Scyrme (talk/solidarity) 17:51, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

I do object, but I don’t wish to revert the change as I’d like to propose an alternative first. Usually when I use this template, it’s on talk pages with existing headers - so I like to set the banner parameter on the archives box. Can either of the following changes be made:

1. Allow the setting of the banner parameter for the archives box
2. Detect when the user manually adds an archive box and inhibit adding a second through the template

Danners430 _{tweaks made} 21:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

@Danners430: The first is easy to do and is entirely reasonable, so I've just gone ahead and done it. In-fact, I went further and allowed several other parameters to be set, since this is already done for {{Talk header}} so it seems reasonable to allow it for {{Archives}} too.

I don't know how to do the second and, as far as I know, it's not even possible. If you know of a template with similar behaviour to the second proposal, please link it so I can take a look to see how it does it. – Scyrme (talk/solidarity) 09:30, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Ideal - I’ve no idea if it can be done tbh, as I’m no template editor - the parameter idea works though! Danners430 _{tweaks made} 09:34, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

I'm no expert either, but: first off, it's obviously doable as a LUA module. Even without that I imagine some regex wizardry might pull it off. After all, in this case the question is relatively straight-forward: "does this specific string appear on the page, then return no as the default parameter value". Good luck :) CapnZapp (talk) 10:02, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Thinking about it, I suppose something similar to {{Th/abp}} (which reads the bot configs for {{Talk header}}) could work. That template invokes Module:String to read the config. Could probably use a similar method to detect {{Archives}} and output a "no" if it does detect it. Might try figuring something out later if no-one else does it first (though I have other things which are higher up the to-do list, so if anyone wants this done they should not wait on me). – Scyrme (talk/solidarity) 10:21, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Module:WikitextParser can return the templates from the page. — Qwerfjkltalk 11:01, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Its documentation states it shouldn't be called directly by templates. – Scyrme (talk/solidarity) 11:09, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Just wanted to circle back to say thank you - having some kind of archive box pop up automatically ({{Archives|collapsible=yes|collapsed=no|banner=no|search=yes}} in this case) is muchly helpful for a newcomer-facing template like this one. CapnZapp (talk) 10:49, 29 June 2026 (UTC)

documentation tweaks

First off I removed the documentation of |talk_force=. I believe any |force= parameter has been removed from {{Talk header}}.

Then I clarified that this template renames certain parameters. Of course the reason is {{Talk header}} and {{Archives}} has parameters of the same name, but I didn't think I needed to explain why, just to make it clear that when you set, say, |talk_arpol= you're really setting |arpol=, and more to the point, when you're wondering what |talk_arpol= actually does, you need to look for |arpol= at the linked doc page. CapnZapp (talk) 12:06, 29 June 2026 (UTC)

"counter" parameter when archives already exist

The documentation on Help:Archiving a talk page#Quick and easy method reads:

{{subst:Setup auto archiving|archives=yes}}

After that, a bot will be along within the next day to start archiving. This should work even if there has already been a previous manual archive. This is an appropriate method for nearly every article talk page.

(emphasis mine)

The documentation for the "counter" parameter on this page reads:

Supplying this parameter (i.e. not relying on the default) is necessary when more than one archive already exist for a page. Set this to the current archive number

These seem to be contradictory. If manually-created archives already exist, is the "counter" parameter necessary or not? Ligaturama (talk) 08:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

Nothing will neccessarily break if a counter is not specified while archives already exist, however if you do not specify a counter and the config for the bot has a larger max archive size than the existing archives were made to, then the bot will simply archive to the first valid one available, which may cause them to become unordered. There should probably be some note included on adding a counter when there are existing archives. Aidan9382 _(talk) 08:13, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

I have updated the two respective pages of documentation to make it more clear that while |counter= should be used when appropriate, failing to do so doesn't break the archiving process. CapnZapp (talk) 09:36, 19 July 2026 (UTC)

A specific (and minor) note regarding and the config for the bot has a larger max archive size than the existing archives were made to, Aidan9382: the current default for {{subst:Setup auto archiving}} makes this very likely. This does not mean I'm arguing for any changes. It merely means I am observing very few existing archive bot configurations other than those created recently by using this template will match the current* settings for |size=. *= see § Default archive size above. Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 10:07, 19 July 2026 (UTC)

Talk header and/or Archives

Does the functionality "add Archives unless Talk header is present" really work?

I'm making test edits in my sandbox, but perhaps it is the namespace that makes the difference. Anyway, adding {{subst:Setup auto archiving}} drops an Archives even if I have already added a Talk header (in a previous, separate, edit).

My main question was: okay so |archives= is set to no/false if a talk header template is detected, but can you force one by explicitly adding |archives=yes? Or will the template refuse to emit an archives if a talk header is already present?

And does the code take all of talk header's aliases into account. That is, will it detect redirects to talk header, such as {{th}}, {{Talk page banner}} and many more?

Questions questions. CapnZapp (talk) 09:21, 19 July 2026 (UTC)