Talk:Scientology

ANI notice about editing on Scientology topic

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding the derailing of content discussions. The thread is Cambial Yellowing on Scientology. The discussion is about the topic Scientology.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 16:54, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

Apologies for the late notice. I had initially posted the notice at WikiProject:Scientology, which had been inactivated 10 years ago, and though I reactivated it 2 years ago now, it still has less than 5% of the page watchers that this article has—meaning this subject has far more interest than an old WikiProject does. Since the editing of this article is of substantial focus in the ANI thread, I am placing a notice here as well.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 16:54, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

The ANI thread and its result was archived at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1209 § Cambial Yellowing on Scientology.

Today, I am archiving several of the mega-threads here on this talk page that were related to the ANI but which are probably no longer needed as a working copy for the Scientology article.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 03:46, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

Summary style

Per WP:SUMMARY, it is recommended that when an article is large (as this one is), one should split out subtopics to other standalone articles. Earlier talk page discussions settled that Scientology is the topmost article for the subject, with major articles Church of Scientology and Scientology beliefs and practices tied for second. It had been mentioned that "Scientology" was being used for content about the belief system while "Church of Scientology" was a spin-out for the organizations. However, I posit instead that "Scientology beliefs and practices" should be used for the belief system, while "Scientology" be designated the overarching label for all the topics.

There have been several earlier attempts at reducing the content in the Scientology article, while actually using the other articles to contain the detailed material while leaving short summaries in the Scientology article... per WP:SUMMARY. However, any attempts to reduce Scientology were met with a gatekeeper, and attempts were abandoned. Now that we are free to constructively work on this article, I think it's time to revisit the SUMMARY project.

Recently, I used the summary style and the template {{excerpt}}. I move some detailed content about real estate properties from Scientology as a business into the Scientology properties article, then modified "Scientology properties" so that there was a lead paragraph without any citations (citations were moved into the body of the article, leaving the lead as a true summary). Then I used {{excerpt}} to dynamically copy the lead paragraph into "Scientology as a business". It worked like a charm. (Citations in the lead can cause a problem in the target article, especially if the citations are "named" references, and they collide with similarly named ones. It's just cleaner to summarize the lead properly and leave citations in the body.)

We can use this method to reduce the content of Scientology so that it actually is a top-level article; a summary of the subject. Of course that means cleaning up the excerpt-source articles and working up their leads.

I'm willing to start working on this, but it would be helpful if others at least chime in. What say you guys?   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:41, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. The article needs lots of work, and looks like you have a plan for it. Feoffer (talk) 11:36, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes I do, Feoffer. Right now I'm splitting up the huge template TM:Scientology (previously 184 articles) into major subtopic templates and this is helping me straighten out in my head the "topic tree" (hierarchical organization) that will be the framework for the summary style structure.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 17:58, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Update: The article has been trimmed from 224,000 bytes down to 128,000 bytes, which is about 57% of the larger size, and that trimmed the citation count from 505 to 250. Plenty more to trim/summarize, especially from the two largest sections "Church of Scientology" (80 refs) and "Controversies" (117 refs).   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:18, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

Subtopics done

• Thetan
• Auditing
• Ethics and justice
• Scientologists
• Free Zone

  ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 01:16, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

• Etymology
• Scientology symbols
• Operating Thetan
• Space opera in Scientology
• Xenu

  ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 00:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

I think you are doing a great job. I don't edit in this area much because I know so little about Scientology other than the electronics in the E-Meter, but it is great to see how this important topic is being improved. Keep up the good work. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:58, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the encouragement. There's lots of work still to be done to turn this into a [hierarchically] top-level article for the entire subject area... that is readable, understandable, and useful.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 03:50, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

• Reception and influence  Done   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:09, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
• Media and academia  Done   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:09, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
• Popular culture  Done   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:09, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

I created a new article, Scientology analysis and criticism, which contains the content moved from these four sections:

• Definition
• Classification
• Scientology in religious studies
• Influences

Its lead is now {{excerpt}}ed into Scientology § Scientology analysis and criticism.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 02:57, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

• Legal status  Done.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 19:56, 12 May 2026 (UTC)
• History  Done.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 21:14, 12 May 2026 (UTC)
• Church of Scientology (and subsections).  Done.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 00:31, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

I have to say, I really like what I am seeing. I wish I knew more about the CoS and could be more help. I have been checking the edits looking for errors, but haven't found any. Good work! You can expect a little something extra in the paycheck we all get.^{[Citation Needed]} for editing Wikipedia. Who would have guessed that building an encyclopedia was so lucrative? --Guy Macon (talk) 04:02, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

They must have a wrong address for me cuz I didn't get the check. (LOL) I'm glad someone is at least observing the edits and I'm not just editing in a vacuum. Just a little more trimming to go and then we can reorganize and rebuild the article as a REAL top-level summary article. I even have plans for the beliefs and practices article and how it fits with this one. Dang this hobby; will I ever be done with this project! Please do keep checking my edits. Someone ought to.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 04:20, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Great work, thank you. - Walter Still not in the Epstein Files Ego 06:21, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

• Controversies.  Done.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 17:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
• Beliefs.  Done.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 08:22, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
• Hubbard as source.  Done.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 23:43, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

New focus

Though I'm not done overhauling this article, the last week of working on a new replacement for the "controversies" section has taught me some things... primarily that this article is meant to be an overarching article about the entire topic of Scientology.

It isn't about "the movement" while the Church of Scientology article is about "the organization" (as had long been asserted by some earlier editors while still bloated with subtopics about the organization). This article is about the Church of Scientology's Scientology (movement and organization), with just a side mention of freezone. The article (this one) is supposed to cover and overview all the major topics related to Scientology without diving into details.

It should answer basic questions of a casual reader, "What is Scientology? What do Scientologists believe? What practices are involved? Why is it so controversial?"

Secondarily, I've learned that WP:SUMMARY is not just about trimming bloated content, but about a hierarchical structure of a major subject. We have the daughter articles for details. What we didn't have was an overall article for the entire subject. We do now. Still needs work, but I think this is a good start.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 17:57, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Summary project is done; where to from here

I have completed my project of overhauling the Scientology article, at least the trimming part where I have moved content into subarticles/daughter-articles, and summarized content when it was too lengthy or detailed. Working over the last 5 months, I've taken the article size:

from 225,000 bytes with 12,000 prose words and 500 citations,

to 45,000 bytes with 2,500 prose words and 42 citations.

This represents an 80% reduction in article size and prose length. Sure, the article could probably use more work, and maybe I've not included something that should actually be added, but in my opinion I think the trimming phase is complete.

For the future of the Scientology article, we should ensure that it remains an overview article which doesn't hold massive amounts of intricate details, but instead points to other articles or article-sections which can and do hold the detailed coverage.

The article has been a magnet for detailed additions, instead of editors recognizing a hierarchy of articles and inserting new content into subarticles. (I'm not sure how to solve this except for monitoring the article at this stage.) Indiscriminate additions caused the article to balloon out of proportion. WP:SUMMARY covers the concept that the top article should be a summary overview, and subarticles should carry the weight of details. The entire topic of Scientology is vast, and one article cannot contain it all.

I always said that this main article should answer these questions for any curious person:

1. What is Scientology?
2. What do Scientologists believe?
3. What do they do?
4. What is all the fuss and controversy?

If we can maintain this article to answer those basic questions, using regular English language and understandable to the average reader (see WP:TECHNICAL), then we will have accomplished the goals of Wikipedia in this area.

I will continue working in the Scientology topic area, including improving related subarticles. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions, either here, on the Wikiproject page, my user talk page, or by emailing me.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:42, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Looks like a lot of good work. Any chance that the History section might get an expansion, detailing developments since the death of Hubbard 40 years ago? Assambrew (talk) 17:24, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, Assambrew. The section currently links to History of Dianetics and Scientology and Timeline of Scientology. What do you think should be covered here in this article?   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 07:52, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

Maybe just a short version of the years under Miscavige. Assambrew (talk) 06:35, 29 June 2026 (UTC)

I added a paragraph.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:53, 30 June 2026 (UTC)

...and several wikilinks to subarticles. Assambrew, I hope that covers Miscavige's 40-year leadership legacy in a very compact form (that doesn't overshadow the rest of the section).   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 17:33, 30 June 2026 (UTC)

That looks very appropriate, thanks. Assambrew (talk) 08:15, 1 July 2026 (UTC)

I really like the way this whole topic is shaping up. Good job!

I know very little about Scientology (my interest is in related WP:FRINGE claims such as "Super Powers") and am finding the current version of this page to be a much better source for learning more about the rest of the religion. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:25, 1 July 2026 (UTC)