Talk:History of Palestinian statehood

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Why this page has a protection?

I can't find any corruption history to it 2.53.163.205 (talk) 21:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

All pages in the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area are protected in the sense that they are covered by WP:ARBECR. Sometimes that protection is enforced manually by editors and sometimes it is enforced automatically by extended confirmed protection. Either way, unregistered IPs and accounts without the extended confirmed privilege are only allowed to post edit requests on talk pages. Sean.hoyland (talk) 02:52, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of ambassadors of the State of Palestine to South Africa which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:42, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 2 May 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus for either of the proposed moves, which should surprise nobody. I could call the former "not moved" but I think that's a harsh verdict on a proposal that really didn't see nearly as wide of participation as you might expect. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 05:03, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

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• History of the State of Palestine → History of Palestine
• History of Palestine → History of Palestine (region)History of Palestine (region)

– There has already been a consensus on Talk:Palestine/Archive 21#Requested move 31 December 2024 that Palestine refers to the West Bank and Gaza. So we should follow this consensus, WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. Easternsahara (talk) 01:39, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

• Comment If anything History of Palestine should be deleted and or redirected to History of Israel, where as Palestine didn't exist ever apart from name till after the British mandate. Also History of the State of Palestine is a bad title, correct title should be History for the State of Palestine, as no state exists or ever has. Govvy (talk) 08:55, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

  Please see the move discussion that I have shown, the parent article, Palestine, was moved from State of Palestine to Palestine. Therefore, the title should be History of Palestine, see WP:CONSISTENT. However, Palestine also refers to a region so the current History of Palestine, should be moved to the history of the region of Palestine. Otherwise you can also see the Timeline of the name Palestine. Also you seem to be biased in your comments, please refrain from continuing to engage in this discussion or provide reliable sources that back up what you claim. Wikipedia does indeed recognize Palestine as a state and to change that you must start a discussion on the Palestine page. Also, history of x is consistent with other article titles about history of countries. Easternsahara (talk) 09:39, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

  Well, in the Timeline article you have Peleset referring to the Philistines, who are in fact Minoans who settled the area from Crete. They have nothing to do with the name Palestine. There are multiple miss-translations and miss-information on loads of wikipedia articles. The history of Gaza is somewhat convoluted, but it appears to miss the how the Greek conquest of the area worked. Even the ancient greek forts are not mentioned for Gaza. In fact Hamas has destroyed huge levels of Greek, Roman and ancient Israelite archaeology when building the towns and tunnels in the region. There is so much history missing from the articles you wish to move around. So much miss-information and a number of pseudo citations being used. I really don't want to go on, but wikipedia is very much corrupted on this articles sadly. But the name's of these articles, how information has been used. Ugh. So sad to see. Govvy (talk) 10:04, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

  So fix it with reliable sources, I don't see how these things affect the consensus that was already established? Easternsahara (talk) 15:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

  @Govvy, that would be inconsistent with common practice when it comes to articles on this history of a place. An approach such as that you advocate would mean it would be impossible to mention prehistory in 'history of [place]' articles. Richard Nevell (talk) 23:02, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

• Support move to History of Palestine for this article as the "State of" is now primary for "Palestine", but move the region article to History of Palestine (region) using the same format as its article Palestine (region). Like as does History of Georgia (country). Both as sub-topics of their parent articles should be WP:CONSISTENT with them as WP:CONSUBs. Any discussion on deletion or merging, should be discussed elsewhere, as revisioning Palestinian existence or critiquing on translations is best not discussed in an RM. But as long as both a "Palestine" and "Palestine (region) article exists for a geographic place, area or sub-division, the history of it, occurring on it geographically at least, can be separate articles even with overlap as just history of an area rather than an entity. The History of the United States did not start on July 4, 1776, with nothing before, nor did the History of Israel start on May 14, 1948. DankJae 23:03, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. Not what anybody would expect by "History of Palestine". Srnec (talk) 20:38, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

  Again, please see the move. If it is established that Palestine refers to the state, then why wouldn't it be the same for the region of Palestine. I would even say using Palestine to refer to the region is quite archaic. Easternsahara (talk) 20:52, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

  We're talking about history! It's quite archaic! Srnec (talk) 00:13, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

  Right, but the people searching for this article are going to be living in 2025 right? Palestine is predominantly used to mean the nation, not the region. Easternsahara (talk) 00:38, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

  2025 people mostly talk about 2025 Palestine, but when they talk about the history of Palestine they are specifically talking about not-2025 Palestine. Srnec (talk) 01:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

  The page on History of Italy is about the country of Italy, not the region; the page on the History of Syria is (mainly) about the country, not the region; the page on the History of India is about the country, not the region; the page on the History of South Africa is about the country, not the region. In fact, the primary topic on some of these pages are so great, that there is no separate page for a region. What makes you think that Palestine is any different? Easternsahara (talk) 02:18, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

  The fact that we have one article for the history of the region and a separate one for the history of the state speaks for itself. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

  the United Nations voted to give the Jews a piece of Palestine and the Arabs a piece of Palestine. The Arabs got the larger piece. The Jews agreed. The Palestinian Arabs didn't get a vote. Five Arab countries invaded and said no on their behalf. War ensued. Israel beat the 5 Arab armies. An armistus line, the Green Line was drawn but it was NOT a border. It lasted until Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked in 1967. Israel again won and got and kept the West Bank, Gaza and Part of Syria. Under International Law if a country is attacked and wins the war, it gets to keep the land it wins. 172.58.116.202 (talk) 05:52, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

  Joanne Minsky. Oops. 172.58.116.202 (talk) 05:57, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

  Totally unrelated comment and failing to understand that international law does not allow for human rights to be abused after you conquer a territory militarily. Your only right is to govern it in compliance with basic human rights. If you don’t and decide to ethnically cleanse it and impose a decades-long military regime on the people you occupy, it’s their right to fight back until your oppression is gone. Think about that next time you want to add your unsolicited opinion about Israeli crimes against humanity in a discussion that doesn’t even bring them up. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 06:11, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

  It was entirely Arab at the beginning, just because they didn't have a state doesn't mean they deserve to be genocided. Otherwise you support the holo just because the jews didn't have a state, or the congo genocide or the colonisation of the americas? Also the right of conquest isn't righteous, because if it was then many more wars would occur and that would be pretty bad Easternsahara (talk) 12:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose the move. Alternatively, move History of Palestine to History of the region of Palestine or History of Palestine (region) while keeping History of the State of Palestine where it is, then turn History of Palestine into a disambiguation page. As has been mentioned above, “history” has implications that go beyond the statehood so a title like this, while suitable for the history of the region throughout the centuries, would be too confusing for an article that chiefly focuses on the last forty years. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:13, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Oppose. The current name is perfectly fine, and "Palestine" only refers to the nation when talking about geopolitics- in most other topics, "Palestine" refers to the region of Canaan. Alternatively, we could do the proposed move and then move History of Palestine to History of Canaan. --ISometimesEatBananas (talk) 01:29, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Canaan, vaguely refers to the land during Middle and Late Bronze Age periods (2nd millennium BCE), and is used interchangeably in the Hebrew Bible, especially in the stories echoing these periods (Books of Genesis, Exodus, Joshua etc.). Canaan is also mostly known in history as an exonym, with unclear borders, generally referiing to the entire Levant (thus also including modern Lebanon and Syria). The people who are known to have called themselves "Canaanites" are the Phoenicians of the Lebanese coast, who persisted in the 1st millennium.

So no, "Canaan" is not an appropriate name to anything before the Middle Bronze Age, or after the Iron Age. If anything, "Canaan" best describes the cultures of the city-kingdoms of the Levant in the 2nd millennium BCE, in a geographical extent much wider than that of traditional definitions of "Palestine". Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

So certainly no move, then. --ISometimesEatBananas (talk) 13:39, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

• Comment: This move, when not considering a wider array of articles, is only going to create more problems in the future. We are facing the problem of a label that is attributed to a land, a group of people, and a national entity, all being quite different, with distinct histories. As a land, it is the same land as what is called "The Land of Israel", and both the titles "Israel" and "Palestine" are adequate and inadequate for certain periods in history. The boundaries of this land also fluctuate from time to time. They exist as vague conventions for an anachronistic definition of the land. In reality, there wasn't always a singular idea for the land. It was divided between regions and groups, and/or incorporated into other regions (such as Syria, al-Sham etc.). The term "Levant" and "southern Levant" are compromises, but they are mostly relevant to prehistoric, protohistoric and ancient historical periods, up to the 1st millennium BCE.

So changing "History of the State of Palestine" to "History of Palestine" will cause confusion. While chanhing "History of Palestine" to "History of Palestine (region)" is a move in the right direction, though still there is a problem concerning some periods where "Palestine" is inadequate (i.e., before the Late Roman period). In the English speaking world, "Palestine" has been used, even by many Israeli-Zionist schoalrs, but in Wikipedia, where the boundaries between academic and political information is blured, this causes problems.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:43, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

• Support moving History of Palestine to History of Palestine (region), in line with the main article title Palestine (region). No opinion on moving History of the State of Palestine to History of Palestine. --Hassan697 (talk) 20:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

• Support second move as a helpful reduction in ambiguity. Oppose first move as an unhelpful introduction of ambiguity. I have no opinion on where History of Palestine should redirect. Perhaps a dabpage could be created, but this is not usually recommended for disambiguating between two items only. Bensci54 (talk) 16:47, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 30 September 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus for History of Palestinian statehood. (non-admin closure) Ophyrius (he/him
T • C • G) 14:13, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

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History of the State of Palestine → Palestinian statePalestinian state – This article focuses on the pursuit and evolution of Palestinian statehood since the 1937 Peel Commission onward, and not just the 1988-declared State of Palestine. This also avoids confusion/redundancy with the similarly named History of Palestine article. Per WP:COMMONNAME, "Palestinian state" aligns with how RS refer to the establishment of a future or conditional Palestinian entity (i.e. a fully sovereign state via a two-state solution). Skitash (talk) 13:01, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - nonsensical. This is an article about the history of the State of Palestine, not the overall concept of a Palestinian state. estar8806 (talk) ★ 14:59, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Support per nom. R3YBOl (🌲) 20:44, 3 October 2025 (UTC)

Oppose the primary topic for Palestinian state is obviously Palestine. I propose that this be moved to History of Palestinian statehood as both History of the State of Palestine and History of the Palestinian state will be confused with a broader History of Palestine. Thanks, 🇪🇭🇵🇸🇸🇩 Easternsahara 🇪🇭🇵🇸🇸🇩 02:18, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

I support moving it to the History of Palestinian statehood, per Easternsahara. — EarthDude (wanna talk?) 04:30, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Support moving it to History of Palestinian statehood instead to avoid confusion with the History of Palestine article 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 04:48, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.