Talk:Antisemitism

“Rfc on Jew-hatred term”

This supposed 'RfC' is entirely contrary to core Wikipedia policy. We go by what published reliable sources say, which is that the present meaning of the term 'antisemitism' refers to prejudice against Jews only. Any local consensus, even if it were arrived at here (which it clearly won't be) cannot overrule policy. Any further attempt to raise such pointles and irrelevant arguments will be reported as disruptive. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:53, 25 August 2026 (UTC) The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

“Rfc on Jew-hatred term”

Bearing in mind the derivation of the word anti-Semitism and its definition that is credited to Wilhelm Marr, he is noted to have written “For the struggle against supremacy of Judaism, I choose the term anti-Semitism. “ Should the term Jew-hatred be aligned with antisemitism? As it appears to be a derivation after the fact.

Removing the term Jew hatred from the statement below will improve its neutrality, verifiability and etymology within the article.

Antisemitism,[a] or Jew-hatred,[2] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews.

This request is for the evaluation of the term Jew hatred on the basis of Wikipedia policy on verifiability and neutrality. 07:06, 24 August 2026 (UTC) Thank you. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 07:06, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Hi, lets have a conversation first. What do you think? Have you read Antisemitism#Etymology? The origin of "antisemitic" terminologies is found in the responses of Orientalist Moritz Steinschneider to the views of Orientalist Ernest Renan. Historian Alex Bein writes: "The compound anti-Semitism appears to have been used first by Steinschneider, who challenged Renan on account of his 'anti-Semitic prejudices' [i.e., his derogation of the Semites as a race]."[25] Psychologist Avner Falk similarly writes: "The German word antisemitisch was first used in 1860 by the Austrian Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider (1816–1907) in the phrase antisemitische Vorurteile ('antisemitic prejudices'). Steinschneider used this phrase to characterise the French philosopher Ernest Renan's false ideas about how 'Semitic races' were inferior to 'Aryan races'".[26] See also WP:COMMONNAME. Thanks, Polygnotus (talk) 08:26, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

It is nice of you to point out the part that was played by The origin of "antisemitic" terminologies as found in the responses of Orientalist Moritz Steinschneider to the views of Orientalist Ernest Renan.

From my reading of the article, William Marr’s ideology, definition, and application of the word appears to have superseded Moritz Steinschneiders interpretation of the word.It is in this sense that the rfc references Wilhelm Marr’s disposition to antisemitism.

Thank you. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 10:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Should we let someone like Wilhelm Marr influence which words we use? WP:COMMONNAME is policy so we'd need a very good reason to deviate from it. Polygnotus (talk) 19:12, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

I don't see how Marr has any influence at all, except in the etymological context. Maybe I'm missing your point? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 23:12, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

@Jpgordon The TA above appears to use Marr's words as a reason to prefer remove the other term. I am saying we shouldn't let someone like that influence what words we use. Polygnotus (talk) 06:50, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

There is nothing to 'evaluate'. Wikipedia goes by published reliable sources, and not by personal evaluations. And regardless of etymological quibbles, the overwhelming consensus amongst such sources is that the term refers specifically to prejudice against Jews. The is verifiable, and since there is no serious counter-view amongst such sources, 'neutrality' doesn't come into it. And please note that putting 'RfC' in a thread title doesn't make it one. We don't need one, this is clearly a settled matter, since absolutely no reliable sources suggesting that 'antisemitism' now refers to anything but prejudice against Jews has been presented. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:20, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

@AndyTheGrump They added not just one but two RfC templates in a single edit.. But since RFCBEFORE wasn't followed and this page has 1,667 watchers I removed them so we could have a conversation instead. Polygnotus (talk) 06:46, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

I disagree with your assessment, what you are stating is that Wilhelm Marr’s definition of antisemitism so far as it is detrimental to the treatment of a particular people can be tweaked, varied, to meet a specific agenda thereby invalidating the context in which he made his declaration on Antisemitism.

I request the re-instatement of the request for comment.

Thank you. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 07:13, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

It isn't clear what you are hoping to achieve. Can you explain what your goal is? Polygnotus (talk) 07:16, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

The term Jew-hatred was added after the fact to Wilhelm Marr’s concept of Antisemitism. It was not part of his declaration. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 07:32, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

That doesn't answer the question. This is not a discussion forum; this page is used to talk about improvements to the article. So in what way are you proposing the article be improved? Thanks, Polygnotus (talk) 07:42, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Removing the term Jew hatred from the statement below will improve its neutrality, verifiability and etymology within the article.

Antisemitism,[a] or Jew-hatred,[2] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 07:49, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

So you are saying the Oxford English Dictionary is wrong? That is the source used.

Anyway, sorry, that's not gonna happen. Polygnotus (talk) 07:51, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

I will require more inputs on the matter.So if you don’t have any further comments you can go ahead to re-instate the request for comment back into the system. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 08:12, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

That won't change the answer. Polygnotus (talk) 08:13, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

You restarted not one but two RfCs and you are not even making sense. What Marr said is irrelevant to us. He does not own that word. So you are just wasting people's time. Polygnotus (talk) 09:13, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Jew-hatred is not the term used by Wilhelm Marr to describe the hostility towards Jews. He used antisemitism. ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 09:36, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

But how is that relevant? Why do you think that "jew-hatred" should be removed because Marr did not use it? Why do you think it is important which word Marr used? Polygnotus (talk) 09:41, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Rfc about the term “distinct “ to mean it is only implied as originating from others rather than also including its origination from the Jews as well in the article

Pointless pseudo-RfC started in contravention of policy by block evaded, now blocked again The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

In the statement extracted from the article as stated below, it’s argued that an hostility towards the Jews is driven by the belief that the Jews constitute a distinct race. Should it not also read that the Jews consider themselves as a distinct race?

“a person's hostility is driven by the belief that Jews constitute a distinct race with inherent traits or characteristics that are repulsive or inferior to the preferred traits or characteristics within that person's society.”

Shouldn’t the statement above reflect the core Wikipedia policy of going by what published sources document regarding the self-distinct proclamation of Jews of being different from others?

The statements below were given by notable Jewish personalities, the links to these are provided.

Israeli National Security Minister Ben-Gvir: I think targeted eliminations should be carried out in Gaza every night — take out 30-40. Not only those who endanger you at that particular moment.

There are people there who shouldn’t be alive. They shouldn’t live.

I’m already being generous by calling them people.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/uproar-over-itamar-ben-gvirs-degrading-treatment-of-flotilla-activists/

Israel’s Chief Rabbi says Palestinians are not a people and have no rights In an address at West Jerusalem’s Gush Katif Museum, Israel’s Chief Rabbi David Yosef denied Palestinians exist as a people and said they ‘have no rights’. He also claimed Gaza and occupied West Bank cities for Jews, and called for Gaza’s destruction and Jewish settlement.

https://aje.news/fzgpaf

Supporting policy statements

The Wikipedia policy on verifiability states if reliable sources disagree with each other then maintain a neutral point of view and present what the various sources say giving each side its due weight.

If reliable sources disagree with each other then maintain a neutral point of view and present what the various sources say giving each other its due weight. 06:48, 26 August 2026 (UTC) ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 06:48, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

I've removed the RfC template because it's both extremely unclear what this is asking, but there doesn't seem to be any productive discussion to come from this because there's been absolutely zero WP:RFCBEFORE alongside your previous attempt that was subsequently shut down. I don't see the need to have this listed as an RfC when the statement is a) non-neutral, b) is extremely vague in what it is attempting to do, and c) was started by someone who seemingly has no care to follow procedure. SmittenGalaxy | talk! 07:46, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

I brought this up on my work computer before and I was about to do exactly this once I finished work. Also, I'd invite the temporary account above to read WP:RFCNEUTRAL (aka WP:RFCBRIEF). TarnishedPath^talk 08:10, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Should this statement be considered non-neutral in the context in which it is being used in the extract from the article?

“a person's hostility is driven by the belief that Jews constitute a distinct race”

Article extract:-

“a person's hostility is driven by the belief that Jews constitute a distinct race with inherent traits or characteristics that are repulsive or inferior to the preferred traits or characteristics within that person's society.” ~2026-46041-84 (talk) 09:13, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Well, to answer that question, I don't see how it can be construed as non-neutral. It's simply a statement that is based on the sources.

In response to your original post, Should it not also read that the Jews consider themselves as a distinct race? would be WP:SYNTH unless you had a source backing this interpretation specifically; you cannot say that Jewish people consider themselves a distinct race simply because some people who are antisemitic believe they are. This would have to be verified by some reference actually saying it. SmittenGalaxy | talk! 09:28, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

I'm going to disregard the stuff about Palestinians in this request as that is completely off-topic and seems like an intentional distraction.

While it is true that there are many Jews who conceptualise their Judaism in terms of race, or something similar, it is also true that there are many who do not. The proposed statement would be a gross and misleading generalisation and should not be added to the article. It is also off-topic for this article which is about antisemitism not Judaism. Antisemites definitely do regard Jews as a race (vague though that term is) and their ideology is one of unambiguous racism. That's what matters here! Whether Jews conceptualise themselves as a race, whether they are a race, or whether race is even a meaningful concept are all matters for other articles. If anything, harping on about Jewish racial identity might have the effect of endorsing or legitimising some of the views of the antisemites. We should not risk doing that! Antisemitism is an incoherent and often opportunistic bigotry which targets people of Jewish descent, people of Jewish religion, people having some other cultural connection to Judaism, people rumoured to be Jewish, people who vaguely look the part or who have Jewish sounding names and even people merely deemed to be sympathetic to Jews or Judaism. None of this has any basis in material reality because bigotry is not rational. --DanielRigal (talk) 10:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

This pseudo-RfC clearly falls within the subject area of restrictions imposed under Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Arab–Israeli conflict. As such, lacking an account meeting WP:ECR, ~2026-46041-84 (who incidentally is almost certainly evading a block) does not have the authority to open it, and it should be immediately closed. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:31, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Please do not RfC language and linguistics for this

I was very excited to receive an RfC for linguistics, as I never get those and it's my main field of expertise! Alas, I was pinged for one of the two Very Closed discussions above me. I'm not really seeing how the processes of how language as a whole works would be relevant to anything in the article (*maybe* some etymology but that's really stretching it). Please do not make an RfC for languages and linguistics unless there's something actually related to languages and linguistics to talk about. Maybe another banner should be put at the top for this? I'm not sure if there's a "please don't RfC this particular topic" banner though.. AlexChillOut (talk) 01:47, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

The person responsible for the time-wasting RfC's has been blocked indefinitely. They were utterly pointless, since they were proposing that we ignore sources and instead engage in arguments over what the contributor thinks a word ought to mean. Regardless of the topic, Wikipedia policy is the same - we base article content only on what published reliable sources directly support, and there's simply no debate over the matter in sources discussing the subject of this article. This really has next-to-nothing to do with language, and instead was a demonstration of why we need to be firm about not letting people misuse article talk pages as a platform for their own personal agendas. If they actually had an agenda at all, beyond wishing to engage in trolling. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:16, 28 August 2026 (UTC)